I work for a church and I can't stand it any more.

[Aoi Magi]

My Dad had a saying....God helps those that help themselves. It's true.

...except when it isn't.

Do you think the cancer victims don't try to help themselves? Do you think rape victims get raped because they don't try to save themselves?

The fact is, trying to help yourself only boosts the possibilities of success, while not trying at all increases the chances of failure. You can choose to attribute that success to whomever you want, but in the end it is you who makes the difference.

[strawdawg]

My Dad had a saying....God helps those that help themselves. It's true.

...except when it isn't.

Do you think the cancer victims don't try to help themselves? Do you think rape victims get raped because they don't try to save themselves?

The fact is, trying to help yourself only boosts the possibilities of success, while not trying at all increases the chances of failure. You can choose to attribute that success to whomever you want, but in the end it is you who makes the difference.

I think you know what I meant. To do nothing insures failure. To act and move towards a goal greatly increases the chances for success.

[Aoi Magi]

I think you know what I meant. To do nothing insures failure. To act and move towards a goal greatly increases the chances for success.

Yes, that is the truth that should be taught, without attaching mythical entities to it.

[Esquilax]

At the moment it's chic to be atheist. Supposedly you're more intelligent if you're atheist, after all Einstein and Sagan were atheist. It's a fad and it won't last.

A clear case of monkey see monkey do.

You don't seem to be able to quit it with the assumptions, do you? Why do you assume that atheism is merely the result of a need for popularity? Or do you think of all soteriological positions as merely fashion choices?

Because that'd be an interesting reason to pick a religious position, but it wasn't the reason any of us did, and how dare you intimate that it was?

[IATIA]

My Dad had a saying....God helps those that help themselves. It's true.

If one has already helped themselves, why then do they now need help from a god.

A clear case of monkey see monkey do.

You are speaking of christianity, right?

[Thumpalumpacus]

My Dad had a saying....God helps those that help themselves. It's true.

My mom used to say that, too. How do you tell the difference between god's help and what you've done yourself? You don't. You give your god the credit, and keep on thinking that you aren't the one in control of your own life.

Not for me, thanks. I knocked, the door didn't open. After a while, I tired of waiting, and moved on. If there is a god, he clearly didn't give a shit about me., so I don't feel obligated to care about him.

He's the one who didn't want a "personal relationship" ... not me.

[KevinM1]

At the moment it's chic to be atheist. Supposedly you're more intelligent if you're atheist, after all Einstein and Sagan were atheist. It's a fad and it won't last.

A clear case of monkey see monkey do.

This is dumb.

I'm not an atheist because it's a fad, or because I'm in my rebellious phase, or any other weak rationalization you want to tell yourself. I've been an atheist for almost my entire life, even as a child. I was one of those people that wanted to believe in a god, but no matter how I tried to twist the idea and stories around in my head, they never made sense.

Like I said in my intro post, I cried as a young boy when I was told I was baptized because it felt like a gross violation of my own liberty. I felt that if I had found some religion that made sense to me, that I should be the one to make the decision to partake in their rituals. I was never convinced that Catholicism was the answer precisely because there were so many other religions on the planet. Even as a 4-5 year old, I didn't buy into it. "Why are there so many other religions? Why does god let bad things happen to good people? What kind of a divine plan revolves around people suffering? What if none of the religions are right?"

Religion doesn't make sense to me on a fundamental level. It's so glaringly obvious that it stems from ancient peoples' psychological need to explain life, death, and the pre-science world around them, that I can't understand why modern people today would buy into it. Might as well treat the Illiad with the same reverence.

A fad... LMFAO. Whatever helps you sleep at night.