Christianity and its effect on self-worth

[Drich]

While many may not know who Newton was in relation to this song, they can still connect with it, not because they are 18th century slave traders, but because at their core they know they need attonement for whatever they did. Like I said it is the broken who seek redemption. If one sees himself as being outside even the bounds of man's morality they can identify with this song.

I unfortunately am in agreement with everything else you said.

The problem with that, is the standard in which you find 'moral' does not meet the requirement of God.

[abaris]

The problem with that, is the standard in which you find 'moral' does not meet the requirement of God.

That's such an arrogant and, sadly, ignorant statement. It's also a demeaning statement for christians without you even seeing it. It basically means, if there isn't a god holding me accountable, everything is fair game and I only play by the rules and try to be a nice person, because I'm afraid what god might do to me.

I can only repeat, that basic morals aren't exclusive to humans. There are numerous new studies about animals holding basic sets of morality within their communities. Videos demonstrating these experiments can be found without effort on the web.

This whole god/morality business only plays to basic human arrogance of somehow being special, but at the same time totally dependent on some higher force.

[Strider]

While many may not know who Newton was in relation to this song, they can still connect with it, not because they are 18th century slave traders, but because at their core they know they need attonement for whatever they did. Like I said it is the broken who seek redemption. If one sees himself as being outside even the bounds of man's morality they can identify with this song.

I unfortunately am in agreement with everything else you said.

The problem with that, is the standard in which you find 'moral' does not meet the requirement of God.

Atonement is unnecessary for people who have done no wrong. The wrong you speak of occupies the mystical realm of original sin, a despicable concept that I reject.

Your assertion about morality is also based on the supposed brokenness of humans. As such, I reject it out of hand as well since it is based on a magical concept that only exists in the minds of those who inexplicably believe it.

[Esquilax]

Me thinks I smell foolishness, foolishness that come from a hater of what I believe in and run down my belief, nope it's hypocrisy I smell from you.

Sorry, but "Oh yeah, well you're dumb!" and "No, you!" are not rebuttals.

Setting yourself above your fellow atheist I see, not a surprise, not at all.

Don't try to put words in my mouth, GC.

The information came from some of the most respected institutions in this country, just because it was found on a site you dislike has nothing to do with the validity of the information. But then you would argue with yourself just to say you won. Looks like your fun turned into a puddle of drool.

GC

This has nothing to do with what I like and dislike, GC. It's a demonstrable fact that conservapedia lies almost constantly, and distorts reality where it can; it has an ideological bias toward extreme conservative christianity. The guy who runs it outright bans anyone who writes from a viewpoint he dislikes; this is a place for what he thinks, not what's real.

Case in point: one of the few links that does work on that article you linked to goes to a study on religion and suicide, which has a conclusions section that, conveniently, conservapedia fails to quote, and there's a reason for that; the conclusions of the study run completely counter to the claim they want to make, that atheism inherently leads to suicide. Here it is: noting that atheists and christians have roughly equal incidences of depression, the study goes on to conclude that the reason atheism has a higher rate of suicide attempts as a result of that is that moral objections to suicide are so often religiously based, and therefore aren't present for atheists.

What the study actually says, GC, is that the difference between atheism and christianity, in this regard, is not a difference in overall mental health, since the two groups have the same level of depression. The difference is fear; the fear religion puts in you of going to hell, of disobeying what god wants. It's the moral objections to suicide, not a lessened desire to actually do it; it's not that christians just don't want to die at the same rate as atheists, it's that they don't want to piss off god. None of this, by the way, is mentioned in the conservapedia article, which is more than happy to tout the results, while ignoring what they mean when it gets in the way.

This is, of course, entirely expected, from anyone who actually takes the time to understand the history and makeup of conservapedia, and most likely unimportant, to those who don't care because what it's saying happens to agree with their agendas.

[Foxaèr]

This thread is a perfect example of why 'moral' men will never know God. They think that their morality/self worth puts them in a position where it is not 'healthy' to repent.

When it comes to silly sins concocted by ridiculous men for ignorant reasons there is no reason to repent.

[Chad32]

The problem with that, is the standard in which you find 'moral' does not meet the requirement of God.

I don't feel the need to meet the moral standard of someone who thinks mass murder is the best way to solve problems, and finds the love between two same sex people an abomination. Or that he values worship more than good deeds. I do not worship him because he does not meet my standard of morals.

[dyresand]

While many may not know who Newton was in relation to this song, they can still connect with it, not because they are 18th century slave traders, but because at their core they know they need attonement for whatever they did. Like I said it is the broken who seek redemption. If one sees himself as being outside even the bounds of man's morality they can identify with this song.

I unfortunately am in agreement with everything else you said.

The problem with that, is the standard in which you find 'moral' does not meet the requirement of God.

God is amoral he shouldn't be the spokesman for morality not even Christianity or any abrahamic religion at that.
Because the idea for a person to do good they have to do good for god. And a person who does good just to be good
and not for god they are sinners. Wow god is a hypocrite sending the actual good people to hell for being a more moral uptight
person and well rounded. While the selfish people who only do good for him go to heaven. guess i'm going to hell because
i don't do good for god i do good for my family friends and over all humanity. I don't need a god to tell me to do good i just know to
do good things.

[Esquilax]

The problem with that, is the standard in which you find 'moral' does not meet the requirement of God.

Okay, look: I'm so fucking tired of this argument of yours. If you want to think that morality, "righteousness," whatever the hell you want to call it, is defined by god and his divine command, then fine. But you don't get to just assert that, sans evidence, and insist that we all use your definition, for no reason other than that you said it.

Justify, or STFU.

[dyresand]

The problem with that, is the standard in which you find 'moral' does not meet the requirement of God.

Okay, look: I'm so fucking tired of this argument of yours. If you want to think that morality, "righteousness," whatever the hell you want to call it, is defined by god and his divine command, then fine. But you don't get to just assert that, sans evidence, and insist that we all use your definition, for no reason other than that you said it.

Justify, or STFU.

I agree with you on this....

[Thumpalumpacus]

Justify, or STFU.

He'll do neither, because he's incapable of either.