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Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
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 (January 6, 2015 at 12:06 pm)Stimbo Wrote: If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?  (January 6, 2015 at 11:49 am)Rhythm Wrote: There's no requirement of consistency because these are just narratives - not news reports from the front.Could be FOX news.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy  Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum  RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 6, 2015 at 3:57 pm
(This post was last modified: January 6, 2015 at 3:58 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(January 6, 2015 at 1:11 am)orangebox21 Wrote: Biblically speaking no one can nor will choose God (Romans 3:10-12, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Ephesians 2:1). If a person's free will cannot be used to choose to love God, it would therefore follow that the purpose of free will cannot be so that we can freely choose to love God. Given how often God calls people to repentance it seems odd to interpret those passages to mean that people cannot respond to that call. I offer alternative interpretations to your proof texts based on the Word’s ubiquitous call to repentance: Romans 3:10-12 – Paul’s reference to Man’s current sinful condition does not negate our ability to repent. True people do not seek God, but God does come to us. And when he does we can reject His Grace or repent. 1 Corinthians 2:14 – Paul’s reference to the ‘natural man’ not receiving the spirit refers to our earthly nature, i.e. the “body of death”. Man is also a spiritual creature which is the part that receives Christ. Ephesians 2:1 – This passage hinges completely on what you think has been predestined. Those who, like you, profess the doctrine of election say that our eternal fate has been predestined, some to heaven, others to perdition. However, placed within the light of all Scripture, it is better said that God has prepared beforehand (pre-) a place in heaven (destination) for all, even if only some accept. (January 6, 2015 at 11:49 am)Rhythm Wrote: Seems like alot of fanfic in that post Orange. The ot jews saw god, full stop. The ot jews did not see god, full stop. There's no requirement of consistency because these are just narratives - not news reports from the front. Your extraneous jerrying with the narrative is an effect of your extraneous beliefs, not a problem with the narratives. They were not written with each other (or your beliefs) in mind.The purpose of the post was to qualify who specifically is the God that people saw. Given that people saw Jesus (who is God) face to face and yet didn't believe in Him, it cannot be logically concluded that seeing God necessitates belief. (January 6, 2015 at 3:57 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
If he would come down here and sit still for five minutes, then I'll see what I make of him.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 7, 2015 at 2:37 pm
(This post was last modified: January 7, 2015 at 2:46 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 7, 2015 at 11:34 am)orangebox21 Wrote: The purpose of the post was to qualify who specifically is the God that people saw. Given that people saw Jesus (who is God) face to face and yet didn't believe in Him, it cannot be logically concluded that seeing God necessitates belief.Who gave you the given? In any case, your statement is a play on the religious meaning of the phrase "and yet didn't believe in Him". There's a harsher way I could say that, of course - but you just came back and I missed you. So...... You're talking about whether seeing one thing, means believing something entirely separate - they didn't see the second thing. Tighten your laces, and don't try to sneak shit in with parenthesis.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(January 7, 2015 at 2:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Who gave you the given? The OP made the claim that people have seen God face to face. (January 7, 2015 at 2:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: In any case, your statement is a play on the religious meaning of the phrase "and yet didn't believe in Him". There's a harsher way I could say that, of course - but you just came back and I missed you. Thanks! Just let me know when you're done pulling your punches.  (January 7, 2015 at 2:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So...... You're talking about whether seeing one thing, means believing something entirely separate - they didn't see the second thing. Tighten your laces, and don't try to sneak shit in with parenthesis.According to Biblical record: Did people in the OT see God face to face? Did people see Jesus face to face? Is Jesus God? Did therefore people who saw Jesus see God face to face? Did everyone who saw Jesus face to face believe in God? Did therefore some people see God and yet not believe in Him? If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?  RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 7, 2015 at 4:51 pm
(This post was last modified: January 7, 2015 at 5:04 pm by Nope.)
Chad is welcome to discuss election and predestination in this thread if he wishes. No need to start a new thread.
Yes, the OP(who is a gorgeous, wonderful person who should be sent Reeses Peanut Butter Cups by the ton, by he way) wrote that Old Testament people saw god face to face because shockingly she has read the bible. Just for starters, god took a nightly stroll in Eden but I don't mind providing bible verses if you need them Quote:Did people in the OT see God face to face? Do you want us to answer these questions? Jesus probably didn't exist. My own theory is that he is a combination of myths combined with some teachings from the Jesus teacher, Hillel. |
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