I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help

[thesummerqueen]

No, Drich, I'm not playing your little game. But your explanation makes sense, since in general you're only talking to yourself on this board anyway.

[dyresand]

No, Drich, I'm not playing your little game. But your explanation makes sense, since in general you're only talking to yourself on this board anyway.

One would wonder... i'm pretty sure some hard core Christians out there would think Dirch is a heretic.. i don't pay much attention to him anyways.

[Natachan]

Being angry at your parents isn't going to help. They aren't lieing to you. Lieing is willfully and knowingly telling an untruth with intent to deceive. They think they are telling the truth, so they aren't lieing. They are honestly trying to do what they think is best. If they are misguided and wrong, at least know that their efforts stem from their concern for you.

One of the hardest lessons to learn is that your parents are just people. They can make mistakes and they are fallible. I was angry at my parents (still am) for a long time due to some actions they took when I was growing up. It took me years to get past that and be able to talk to them and it came about when I accepted that they were fallible and they were just trying to get by in the world.

Try to be understanding of them. Since you're 23 you don't have to put up with it. Don't make a huge issue of it, but do make it clear that you have boundaries and you expect them to respect them.

[abaris]

I've studied the bible and I see so much hate and archaic reasoning. I've tried to force myself to believe in it, but I just can't. I'm honestly comfortable not being religious, but that fear of hell is still there. It's always in the back of my mind.

Actually fear of hell is all I ever been tought about religion. Yes, it made me afraid, but it also brought me to oppose religion at a very young age. My reasoning was this, and I'm sure our evangelical friends will come up with lofty theological explanations, but never mind them: If there's a benevolent god, hell doesn't make any sense. How does living a very limited time on this earth justify eternal punishment or reward? And if there isn't a benevolent god, why worship a being that's so contrary to my morality?

You seem to go through these same stages as far as I understand your posts. My moving away period was pretty lenghty. I started out as a catholic, went to the I don't care stage, still calling myself a catholic, then turned into a deist with some on the menu deity, then a neutral deity not caring one way or the other, to ultimately being an atheist.

The strongest argument however is, that the christian god doesn't make any sense at all. What we know for facts about the world surrounding us, makes his concept laughable. We, as a species, are only around for a couple of million years. And this god is supposed to have suddenly shown up to a nomadic desert tribe some 3000 years ago?

Doesn't compute. And again, don't be derailed by GC, Drich or the professor. They believe, earth poofed into existence some 6000 years ago, which is utter nonsense as far as the civilized world is concerned.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The obvious answer, Abaris, is that they worship an evil god.

[robvalue]

I agree. Ask yourself this: what could be more evil than eternal torture for non-compliance? I mean, really? I got nothing.

[Simon Moon]

I can empathize with your situation.

But to put your situation in context, remember, there are 1.5 billion Muslim parents teaching their children Muslim doctrine and 1.1 billion Hindus teaching their children Hindu doctrine. I'll bet you have no problems considering all those parents wrong.

Why would you think your parents are any different?

As far as the fear of Hell, how much time do you spend fearing all the other hells of other religions?

Give it all time, and continue to properly apply skepticism to all religious claims, and most of these issues will pass.

[watchamadoodle]

TaosFlower, you should be patient and forgiving with yourself and your parents IMO. When these crazy ideas are taught to you as a child, it is really hard to erase them. Probably your parents were indoctrinated too, so their belief is understandable. I was raised as a Christian too.

Also, approaches that might help one person overcome the indoctrination might not work for another person. Just off the top of my head, I've heard these types of approaches:
- showing that various properties of God lead to a contradiction (the problem of evil, etc.).
- learning about the early history of Christianity (Jesus never claimed to be divine, Jesus predicted the end of the world in his lifetime, early Christians didn't believe anything like modern Christians, etc.)
- showing problems in the Bible (God commanding genocide, absurdity of the creation, flood, and exodus stories, primitive superstitious practices, etc.)
- learning about psychology
- learning about lack of evidence for prayers and other miracles
- ...

[robvalue]

Can't all be right, can all be wrong. (Journals of Dillahunty, 4:12).

It is a sad state of affairs when a little child can see through nonsense their parents are telling them.

[Minimalist]

Drippy is a horrible example of what happens when people don't let go of silly jesus shit.