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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 9:36 pm
(January 7, 2015 at 9:28 pm)Exian Wrote: This is usually my sentiment. I try to have a cool head and understand the many perspectives involved in whatever situation, but it's hard to give a fuck about a single moderate when the source of their ideology is also the cause of women being buried up to their necks while they have bricks chucked at their head, or a school filled with children being gunned down, or a man tied up in a public square so his head can be lopped off to become a play thing for the neighborhood kids.
Realistically, I know there's not one goddamned thing that can be done to get rid of all religion, and I hate that. I feel helpless. I know, with the same certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow, that Islam will be the cause of a massive amount of children being slaughtered.
I understand that feeling perfectly. And Muslim extremists commit the sorts of crime that make me want to bring back torture and stone a few people (rather specific people) myself. And then I remember what I don't want to become.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 9:38 pm
(January 7, 2015 at 8:27 pm)Rayaan Wrote: So the act of murdering 10 people just because they drew a cartoon of Muhammad is clearly not within the bounds of Islam.
That is your interpretation. They obviously interpret it differently.
No True Muslim? 
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 9:38 pm
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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 9:39 pm
(January 7, 2015 at 12:09 pm)Chuck Wrote: Now would be a good time for every newspaper, news magazine and tabloid in the world to reprint these cartoons on the front page.
^This^ is the proper response.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 9:40 pm
(January 7, 2015 at 9:05 pm)dyresand Wrote: (January 7, 2015 at 9:04 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote: I'm not defending that immorality is limited to religious people, it's part of the human condition. That would be hypocritical to say.
What i'm saying is that they are following literally the sacred Book, which if you ever read promotes a Holy War against anyone who does not share their beliefs. Same thing for the Crusades hundreds of years before.
Abrahamic religions not peaceful one bit.
No they are not I agree. Religion in the west became civil because of empathetic people cherry picking their books. The west became civil in spite of religion, not because of it.
But that does not mean evolution itself in what leads to flawed perceptions that lead to religions will stop. You kill one religion another one will pop up. So again, at best you can work to more manageable level to the point it cannot go off the rails.
The God of Abraham is no different than Kim Jong Un, as depicted in those books. Can be at best, tolerant but still is immovable and cannot be voted out of office. Most of the time the God character seeks blind loyalty and will treat his minions well, but step out of line or question this God you are deemed the enemy.
Theists well say this is bigoted, but it is not. It is no different a criticism than that of a movie. It is a criticism of HOW the character is written in literature considering the context of the time those books were written, and even polytheists lived in feudal system where the kings ruled and the entire society depended on the loyalty to that king. Kings are dictators and is why you see the word "lord" used in those books.
Even in polytheism you had dictators back then and the mortality rate was much higher back then so even in polytheism your life depended on loyalty to that tribe. And even in polytheism there was a false attachment to the divine for your good fortune.
That is why the OT, Bible and Koran are written like that. The leader was who you followed and in a very literal sense your life depended on doing that. Just like you protected a king or pharaoh or Caesar.
It really simply amounts to humans projecting their own desires into a comic book immortality because doing that is much easier, and certainly so back then, than facing our finite existence in reality. It made more sense back then because humans didn't know better, but we know better now.
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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 9:50 pm
Extremists are different, instead of a conscience they have a Holy Book.
What matters now is that we can preserve our dignity, our humanity and not act like those who want the gunmen tortured, burnt, chop their limbs because then we would be no different from them (the extremists).
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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 9:51 pm
(January 7, 2015 at 9:36 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I understand that feeling perfectly. And Muslim extremists commit the sorts of crime that make me want to bring back torture and stone a few people (rather specific people) myself. And then I remember what I don't want to become.
In this age we're in, where it is easy to record and post videos, it's getting easier to let that feeling go unchecked, and it's getting harder to simply think that these things are happening to someone else somewhere else. I feel horrible that either my imagination was to weak, or my mental defenses were too strong to allow me to see the humanity in it all. The total disregard for life is captured on video for all to see now. Those moments are what go through my head when I hear moderates talk about their religion of peace.
You're absolutely right though. There's no good in sinking to their level. Cooler heads prevail.
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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 10:18 pm
(This post was last modified: January 7, 2015 at 10:21 pm by Mudhammam.)
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 11:08 pm
(January 7, 2015 at 9:28 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote: (January 7, 2015 at 9:18 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Count me out. Thoughtcrime is a crummy way to deal with things. Can you not mount a convincing argument for secular society without advocating censorship or abridging freedom of conscience?
I'm talking about something that i know would never happen or solve anything, on the contrary it would contribute to martyrdom, like Jesus.
It's just a desperate thought of someone who's had enough, seing the things it does in my city, how it leads to massive hysteria.
Now rationally, for me it's always about the next generation, you can't hope to change someone who has absolute faith in God because that is no likely, we can show that religion isn´t needed, it's a thing of a distant past when we couldn't explain certain things or we can promote it's critical analysis in schools to show it's flaws that goes agaisnt what science rightfully claims.
I hear you, I'm frustrated by the assholes too.
I don't think outlawing ideas is the way to combat them. That's all I was saying.
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RE: 10 dead in Paris after attack on Magazine
January 7, 2015 at 11:20 pm
I oft wonder, how many attacks do they think it will take before people just turn on islam altogther? Do they think they are some how wining here? All I see is terrified children that dont wonna grow up. To bad for them that they wont have to pay the price, instead it will be the moderate muslim who wont be be able to find a job because of his religion, it will be his duaghter being beat up by other kids in school.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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