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RE: Why worship?
January 11, 2015 at 12:57 pm
(January 11, 2015 at 12:34 pm)Drich Wrote: (January 11, 2015 at 12:17 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I was thinking commandments more along the lines of obey even the cruel masters, hate yourself and your family or you aren't worthy of me, and give up everything you have, even the shirt off your back if asked, because some of you will not taste death before the world ends. Kind of screws up the thought of loving your neighbor as yourself, when you're supposed to hate yourself.
BCV?
1 Peter, 2:18 - Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh
Luke 14:26 - 26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
Luke 6:29 and 30 - If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
My personal definition of worship comes from those who say they worship Jesus. They excuse everything he does that would be considered evil if it was anyone else who does it, and they credit all good things to him. Like you said in your recent post: Pray to god, and if things work out it's because of him. Presumably if things don't work out, it's your fault? Loggic's a bit faulty there.
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RE: Why worship?
January 11, 2015 at 1:00 pm
Christianity for beginners:
God: You're all shit!
Man: Really?
God: Yep. But kiss my ass and I won't torture you.
Man: Yay!
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RE: Why worship?
January 11, 2015 at 1:02 pm
(This post was last modified: January 11, 2015 at 1:03 pm by watchamadoodle.)
I haven't read this thread, so sorry if these ideas have been covered.
I've thought about the meaning of "worship". In the Eastern Orthodox church there are icons of saints. People bow to and kiss the icons, and they often address their prayers to saints. They say it is "reverence" instead of "worship". So even while I was Orthodox, I thought "worship" was hard to define. How is kissing an icon of Jesus worship and kissing an icon of John the Baptist reverence?
IMO, worship is related to feudalism. As I understand it, the ceremony for becoming a knight involved kneeling and allowing your lord to touch a sword to your shoulder. The knight is giving the lord the opportunity to chop his head off. Worship is about completely surrendering, obeying, depending for sustenance, etc.
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RE: Why worship?
January 11, 2015 at 9:06 pm
(This post was last modified: January 11, 2015 at 9:07 pm by Drich.)
(January 11, 2015 at 12:57 pm)Chad32 Wrote: 1 Peter, 2:18 - Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh keep reading through verse 25. The command is to remind those who are suffering unrightfully of the suffering Christ Himself endured.
Quote:Luke 14:26 - 26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
Maybe try a different translation:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=ERV
Quote:Luke 6:29 and 30 - If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
If you can be bothered to go above and beyond for those in need then maybe Christianity is not for you.
Quote:My personal definition of worship comes from those who say they worship Jesus. They excuse everything he does that would be considered evil if it was anyone else who does it, and they credit all good things to him. Like you said in your recent post: Pray to god, and if things work out it's because of him. Presumably if things don't work out, it's your fault? Loggic's a bit faulty there.
Where did I say this?[/quote]
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RE: Why worship?
January 11, 2015 at 9:21 pm
Quote:We have to keep our God placated with prayers, and even then we are never sure of him -- how much higher and finer is the Indian's God......Our illogical God is all-powerful in name, but impotent in fact; the Great Spirit is not all-powerful, but does the very best he can for his injun and does it free of charge.
Mark Twain
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RE: Why worship?
January 11, 2015 at 9:25 pm
(This post was last modified: January 11, 2015 at 9:26 pm by Chad32.)
(January 11, 2015 at 12:28 pm)Drich Wrote: (January 9, 2015 at 9:37 am)robvalue Wrote: That is what worries me, since how can you distinguish the voice of "god" in your head from mental illness?
Sure you can.
One can test what was said against how it plays in reality.
If God gives direction in business, then look at the business to see if it flourishes or fails.
If God gives direction if wisdom, and His word look to what is say, and how it applies.
If God gives direction in family matters look at the resolution and where the family is over time.
If these things are from God then the person who receives them will be better off than when he started. In truth when one receives direction from God all aspects of life are effected, so when one is successful in all aspects and attributes these successes to God, if you believe mental illness can also be a possible explaination then it is your job to identify what specific illness that leads itself to personal and business sucess and then provide proof of this illness.
Otherwise know your whole arguement is an appeal to probability from a position of ignorance.
This is where you say if something turns out good, it's Yahweh. The implication being that if it turns out bad, it's just you.
The alternate translation you gave says to abandon everyone, including what you want. This is pretty close to the same thing, and still bad advice coming from a guy that's supposed to care about you.
Why do I need to go farther than him saying be obedient to cruel masters, instead of saying escape the bonds of slavery for it is evil for one human to own another? Jesus suffered a horrible death before coming back and becoming the ruler of the universe. Do the slaves who live their whole lives under the heel of cruel masters get such a reward? There is no comparison here.
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RE: Why worship?
January 11, 2015 at 9:58 pm
(This post was last modified: January 11, 2015 at 9:59 pm by Drich.)
(January 11, 2015 at 9:25 pm)Chad32 Wrote: [quote='Drich' pid='842461' dateline='1420993680']
Sure you can.
One can test what was said against how it plays in reality.
If God gives direction in business, then look at the business to see if it flourishes or fails.
If God gives direction if wisdom, and His word look to what is say, and how it applies.
If God gives direction in family matters look at the resolution and where the family is over time.
If these things are from God then the person who receives them will be better off than when he started. In truth when one receives direction from God all aspects of life are effected, so when one is successful in all aspects and attributes these successes to God, if you believe mental illness can also be a possible explaination then it is your job to identify what specific illness that leads itself to personal and business sucess and then provide proof of this illness.
Otherwise know your whole arguement is an appeal to probability from a position of ignorance.
This is where you say if something turns out good, it's Yahweh. The implication being that if it turns out bad, it's just you.
Read it again sport.
that post was in Answer to the claim that their is no difference between mental illness and direction from God.
This post has absolutly nothing to do with anything you have said. Either your reading comperhension is below a 6th grade reading level or your intelectually dishonesty has placed you common sense in question. Because why else would you misrepresent what I have said so badly?
Is it your belief that I can not straighten the mess you have made here?
Quote:The alternate translation you gave says to abandon everyone, including what you want. This is pretty close to the same thing, and still bad advice coming from a guy that's supposed to care about you.
Why do I need to go farther than him saying be obedient to cruel masters, instead of saying escape the bonds of slavery for it is evil for one human to own another?
Because if one stays true to the defination of slavery, one would realize that we are all subject to to "cruel masters" at some point if not through out our whole life, and what is being said here is to remind us of what Christ endured.
Quote:Jesus suffered a horrible death before coming back and becoming the ruler of the universe. Do the slaves who live their whole lives under the heel of cruel masters get such a reward? There is no comparison here.
Our 'reward' is indeed in direct relation to how we respond to situations like this.
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RE: Why worship?
January 11, 2015 at 10:26 pm
Well if that's not what you meant, I guess I just don't know what you meant. if you want to say I must be below a 6th grade reading comprehension, then whatever gets you through the day.
No, I have not gone through one suffering under a cruel master, nor has anyone tried to tell me that's what's supposed to happen. Again, no one is offering me the reward of ruling the cosmos if I go along with it, and no one put Jesus through torture for more than a week. The analogy between Jesus' shitty week, and a slave's lifetime doesn't work.
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RE: Why worship?
January 12, 2015 at 1:27 am
(January 11, 2015 at 10:26 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Well if that's not what you meant, I guess I just don't know what you meant. if you want to say I must be below a 6th grade reading comprehension, then whatever gets you through the day.
No, I have not gone through one suffering under a cruel master, nor has anyone tried to tell me that's what's supposed to happen. Again, no one is offering me the reward of ruling the cosmos if I go along with it, and no one put Jesus through torture for more than a week. The analogy between Jesus' shitty week, and a slave's lifetime doesn't work.
In the orginal context of the quoted message you use the person I was speaking to said something to the effect that their is no difference/no way to tell the difference between what someone claims to be the hand or will of God helping them in their life, and a mental illness.
I simply pointed out that mental illness does not lend itself to a successful business, strong family bonds even in the face of challenges, and a long history of spiritual as well as physical sucess. If that person thought it did it was on him to provide a case study on that particular mental illness, that helps one obtain and maintain a successful life.
You said this was about prayer. If you take the time to read what I wrote carefully you will see this has nothing to do with prayer nor does it have anything to do with the topic being discussed here in this thread.
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RE: Why worship?
January 12, 2015 at 2:33 am
Quote:This is where you say if something turns out good, it's Yahweh. The implication being that if it turns out bad, it's just you.
You have to admit that when these assholes fall for this yahweh shit they fall hard.
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