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Double standards on freedom of speech
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 (January 9, 2015 at 3:50 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Seems to me that driving that sort of movement underground would make it that much harder to track. And would only add fuel to whatever sort of conspiracy victim sheeple complex they have.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson RE: Double standards on freedom of speech
January 9, 2015 at 3:53 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2015 at 4:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 9, 2015 at 2:22 pm)Blackout Wrote: example defamation,It isn't actionable, here, because it is spoken - you have to show palpable damages. "He said something mean about me judge" - case dismissed. "He said something mean about me which caused palpable damage to my livelihood and/or well-being" - lets take a look. Quote:or publicly criticizing a religion.b.b.b.b.b.b.but defamation and shit? -I understand why the laws are on the books in your country, I do. That doesn't mean that they aren't a compromise, or that they are consistent. Sometimes some groups get special treatment for a variety of reasons. Apparently, fascists and hate groups don't enjoy equal rights under law - in your country, and shouldn't - in your estimation. That's okay....there's a bit of history, after all. We went a different way with it, that's all. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"-E B Hall
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 RE: Double standards on freedom of speech
January 9, 2015 at 3:57 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2015 at 4:00 pm by Anomalocaris.)
 RE: Double standards on freedom of speech
January 9, 2015 at 4:02 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2015 at 4:05 pm by Dystopia.)
Regardless I don't think you can prosecuted for simply chit chatting in the night club about how the holocaust didn't happen. Just like I can't be prosecuted for making a racist statement in my home. It only happens if you publicly say so. Or at least that's what it seems.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
RE: Double standards on freedom of speech
January 9, 2015 at 4:05 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2015 at 4:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Should that make it better, or okay? A right to free speech, provided that you're super quiet and don't talk to too many people?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(January 9, 2015 at 4:05 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Should that make it better, or okay? A right to free speech, provided that you're super quiet and don't talk to too many people?I have my doubts related to the "holocaust denial" - I can understand it, and I'd probably support it if I was a jew, but I also reckon there are good cons. My interest is to find a balance. There's actually a difference between informal speech and public speech, and some things can only be a crime if they're said in public. In private you can hold any position you want. As my professor said, no one is stopping you from being a fascist or racist, just don't bring it up on national television or when giving a speech for your party. It's unfair and double standarded, but there are reasons for it.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
(January 9, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Blackout Wrote:(January 9, 2015 at 4:05 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Should that make it better, or okay? A right to free speech, provided that you're super quiet and don't talk to too many people?I have my doubts related to the "holocaust denial" - I can understand it, and I'd probably support it if I was a jew, but I also reckon there are good cons. My interest is to find a balance. I suppose that's a difference between Portgual and America then. In the US you are lawfully allowed to be as racist, fascist, socialist, Stalinist, bigoted, hippy-dippy, or misinformed as you like in public. And frankly I think that's a far healthier way to run a society than labeling certain topics as "too-offensive" for discussion. If people don't like discussing something, they can leave the discussion. The state doesn't need to make that decision for them.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
There are certainly pros and cons for everything, I'll freely admit that, but there are pros and historical as well as cultural reasons, I have studied my constitution, deeply (probably what I've studied more in my degree) and I understand the reasons for every article. I also understand that prohibiting racist and fascist associations is an exception, no other group is illegal - In fact even nationalist groups are allowed, as long as they're not fascist and [openly] racist - And there are many slightly racist stuff you can say, like "I think white people should organize and put interests of the nation above immigrants". In fact, a guy (far right) was arrested after killing several black people and he admitted he thought all of portugal's problems are caused by black immigrants - It didn't add any charges, so I guess it's not that restricted to not be racist.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
Some might see that as an example of state approved bigotry...you know...those people whose bigotry isn't approved by the state.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (January 9, 2015 at 2:54 pm)Blackout Wrote:Quote:I don't believe slander is a crime. It is a civil matter, whereby one would have to show material damages occurred and one could then sue for damages. At least in the US; don't know if this holds true elsewhere. Civil not criminal. Let a Muslim show us how saying bad things about Mohamed causes material damages. I'll wait.It is criminal in europe. It doesn't, and saying bad things about Mohamed shouldn't be a crime. But saying "hate all Muslims and kill them!", for example, can have bad consequences. I dont think slander is a criminal offence in the UK either. http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/accidents_a...00053.html One more reason to leave the EU imo, it seems like quite a draconian place when you look into it. |
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