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RE: Facts about Darwin: psychological and mental illnesses
January 10, 2015 at 6:15 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 4:35 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Some might say that mathematical truths, and if there is such a thing, moral truths, are examples of truth that science cannot discover. Moral 'truths' are subjective, so they cannot be truths.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
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God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
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RE: Facts about Darwin: psychological and mental illnesses
January 10, 2015 at 6:24 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 6:15 pm)IATIA Wrote: Moral 'truths' are subjective, so they cannot be truths. So, would the statements, "One ought to seek truth," or "One ought to measure truth by scientific experimentation," be subjective? These seem to imply something like a moral imperative.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Facts about Darwin: psychological and mental illnesses
January 10, 2015 at 6:29 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2015 at 6:34 pm by IATIA.)
Outside of any formal structured discipline, it would be subjective.
Subjective is an opinion based on personal and sociological interpretations. One can have a false opinion of gravity, but that will not change the rate of fall of that apple. Structures disciplines, such as science and math, have truths. Unstructured disciplines, such as art and philosophy are based on opinion. Granted this is the Cliff notes version, but get the idea?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Facts about Darwin: psychological and mental illnesses
January 10, 2015 at 6:38 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 4:35 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Some might say that mathematical truths, and if there is such a thing, moral truths, are examples of truth that science cannot discover.
All mathematical truths are sophisticated ways to write down tautologies.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Facts about Darwin: psychological and mental illnesses
January 10, 2015 at 6:50 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 6:29 pm)IATIA Wrote: Outside of any formal structured discipline, it would be subjective.
Subjective is an opinion based on personal and sociological interpretations. One can have a false opinion of gravity, but that will not change the rate of fall of that apple. Structures disciplines, such as science and math, have truths. Unstructured disciplines, such as art and philosophy are based on opinion. Granted this is the Cliff notes version, but get the idea? That makes sense though I may suggest that sounds a bit dismissive of philosophy. Isn't that at bottom (setting sophistry aside), tautological in the same way that mathematical statements are?
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Facts about Darwin: psychological and mental illnesses
January 10, 2015 at 6:57 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 6:24 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: (January 10, 2015 at 6:15 pm)IATIA Wrote: Moral 'truths' are subjective, so they cannot be truths. So, would the statements, "One ought to seek truth," or "One ought to measure truth by scientific experimentation," be subjective? These seem to imply something like a moral imperative.
if you can prove objectively that the scientific method is the best way to find truth, then the idea that you ought to measure truth by the scientific method is objective. Now we're likely never to find the whole truth about anything. the exact details about how things happen may ever elude us. However we can know what happens through science. That is why it rules, as Bill Nye says.
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RE: Facts about Darwin: psychological and mental illnesses
January 10, 2015 at 7:43 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2015 at 7:46 pm by IATIA.)
(January 10, 2015 at 6:50 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: (January 10, 2015 at 6:29 pm)IATIA Wrote: Outside of any formal structured discipline, it would be subjective.
Subjective is an opinion based on personal and sociological interpretations. One can have a false opinion of gravity, but that will not change the rate of fall of that apple. Structures disciplines, such as science and math, have truths. Unstructured disciplines, such as art and philosophy are based on opinion. Granted this is the Cliff notes version, but get the idea? That makes sense though I may suggest that sounds a bit dismissive of philosophy. Isn't that at bottom (setting sophistry aside), tautological in the same way that mathematical statements are? IMHO philosophy is no more objective than art. Though some philosophy has stood the test of time, it all is still up for debate. Unless you can point out an example that may perhaps I have missed.
And I am not dismissing philosophy on any level, nor would I art. Now a specific art piece or philosophical argument ...
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Facts about Darwin: psychological and mental illnesses
January 13, 2015 at 9:44 am
(January 10, 2015 at 12:12 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Exactly. We use the scientific method every day without actually calling it that.
Ever baked a cake? You're doing science.
Ever tried to work out where you left your keys? You're doing science.
Ever planned a journey? You're doing science.
If someone invented a better method for investigating reality, guess what we would have to use to determine its validity?
When I do classroom science demonstrations for the local science center I tell the students "Whoever cooks at your house is using a formula just like scientists do! So they're doing chemistry in the kitchen." I then point out that I consult my own "recipes" for ever demonstration.
Elephant Snot is always a big hit.
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RE: Facts about Darwin: psychological and mental illnesses
January 13, 2015 at 6:41 pm
Especially straight out of the elephant.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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