You all convinced me, I'm now an Atheist!!!

[Mister Agenda]

On the other hand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

[Ryantology]

What do you understand the word "full fill" means in the context Jesus used?

I can definitely tell, from the rest of the Sermon, what it doesnt mean. It doesn't mean "you don't have to worry about these laws anymore. They don't apply to you."

I can also tell you that, even according to Jesus, this supposed 'fulfillment' follows "until heaven and earth disappear". I mean, the Bible isn't even a fulfilled narrative yet, as Revelation is supposed to depict events in the future.

You're lying, but mostly to yourself, because you want to believe you're going to heaven, but you're not committed enough to fulfill the requirements to get there. Because, you pay lip service to the idea of Jesus, but the god you really worship is yourself.

[Drich]

how so?

because i know the difference between the Law and a proverb? Just because you always thought the world worked just one way, but then found out it actually works another does not mean those who follow how the world really works poo poo's on the world... Just your understanding of it.

How do you do that drich?

Does the book of proverbs have any *laws* from god?

---

You didn't read the link I provided did you?

According to the Jews proverbs fall under the portion of scripture they call the Ketuvim. Or writtings.
The writtings contain, poetry, wisdom, prayer, trageity and love. (No law)

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/texts/Bi...ings.shtml

If the book of proverbs contained the law it would be classified as part of the Torah.
Or (the law)


A side note.

Some of us really have studied our beliefs, and know a little more than the average (you) atheist. So when you 'bring it' you would do better if you take us seriously enough to read source material we provide.

[DeadChannel]

This thread, man. I burst out laughing.
Also: doesn't this belong in his other thread?

[Forsaken]

Drich is the biggest poe in the history of the internet. I think. When he has no convincing argument left to make, he invents a stupid one just to get the debate going.

Did you by any chance author this book? http://www.amazon.com/Why-Atheist-Who-Be...149595501X

[Drich]

I can definitely tell, from the rest of the Sermon, what it doesnt mean. It doesn't mean "you don't have to worry about these laws anymore. They don't apply to you."

indeed! They still apply to everyone!

I can also tell you that, even according to Jesus, this supposed 'fulfillment' follows "until heaven and earth disappear".

holy crap yes again!

I mean, the Bible isn't even a fulfilled narrative yet, as Revelation is supposed to depict events in the future.

one could even say revelation is a record of history yet to come.

You're lying, but mostly to yourself, because you want to believe you're going to heaven, but you're not committed enough to fulfill the requirements to get there. Because, you pay lip service to the idea of Jesus, but the god you really worship is yourself.

You know (atheist/christian thing aside) one of the things I remember in my Hell dream was all the little tid bits like this one ringing in my ears over and over as I finally began to understand them, too little too late. Then the dispare of finally getting it but too late to do anything about it. I always thought if someone were to just explain it...
That dream is a big reason I am here.
So here is your explaination.

To full fill the law:

The law contains God's will, the ultimate consenquence for sin, and away to atone for sin. God's will is complete, the consenquence of sin is in stone, the only thing left is a perminate solution for attonement. Christ was here to provide an 'in stone' solution for perminate atonement, that covered all sin, once and for all.
Why else do you think that minor sins were atoned by the blood of animals and serious sin meant death/stoning? It was because the attonement offered (animals) was incomplete.

What does this mean? Does it mean the smallest letter of the law goes away? No absolutly not. Does it mean we can forget any part of the law, according to Paul in Romans and what Jesus said here? no we can't.

What full fillment means, is that righteousness comes through attonement, and not following the law. Remember the law does not go away, it's still their looming over all who do not have Christ's attonement covering over them. This means they will be judged and condemned by the law and the consenquences provided by it. The completion of the law means that all who seek redemption will have it and be free from the law as a means to righteousness, because again the righteousness of Christ was offered and given to us on the cross.

This is how not the smallest letter of the law goes away (including the bits about attonement) until Christ comes again.
And yet seperates the 'redeemed' from the law.

Where did I get this craziness?
This is the primary theme of the book of Romans. In Romans Paul goes over and over this 1/2 a dozen different ways and times. If you like we can go line by line and verse by verse.[/quote]

[Full Circle]

Somehow I invisioned a list of 40,000 denominations to be... Idk, longer for some reason.

Those are but the “official” ones, every Tom, Dick and Harry has started their own on every corner of the world.

Non-denominational Christian churches in the US number >35,000

http://www.rcms2010.org/press_release/AC...120501.pdf

http://www.rcms2010.org

[dyresand]

Dirch i did some thinking... you can't be all serious and be religious i am agreeing with C#er you are just a extreme poe.

[Esquilax]

What do you understand the word "full fill" means in the context Jesus used?

Execute upon it, see that it occurs, etc etc. You know, what the word "fulfill" actually means, especially when we contextualize it with the part about nothing in the law changing until all had come to pass. I'm just using Jesus' own words here, which is something you aren't doing when you spin the words to mean the opposite of what they mean, without justifying this at all.

[Drich]

What do you understand the word "full fill" means in the context Jesus used?

Execute upon it, see that it occurs, etc etc. You know, what the word "fulfill" actually means, especially when we contextualize it with the part about nothing in the law changing until all had come to pass. I'm just using Jesus' own words here, which is something you aren't doing when you spin the words to mean the opposite of what they mean, without justifying this at all.

Ooo! A biblical challenge!

Let's see what what jesus actually said in mat 5:17
The koine word there is,
πληρόω
Transliteration
plēroō
Pronunciation
plā-ro'-ō (Key)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...4137&t=KJV
It means:
to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

What where those promises?
Prophesy concerning atonement. If you like I have a few sites that can step you through all of these prophesies.