It wasn't Mohammed who founded Islam.

[pocaracas]

Muhammad is way different than Jesus, he had relatives, they wrote things down.

But... but... Rayaan was just telling us how Mo's tribe relied only on oral tradition...
Why would they write anything down?

Robert Spencer is a Christian extremist and bigot. I'm probably one of the most critical people of Islam on these forums but my criticism of Islam doesn't make my brain fall out of the side of my head or make my degree in history disappear. Muhammad almost certainly existed. What difference does it make anyway? Muhammad existing, the awful, slaver, raider and pedophile that he was? It makes Islam look worse honestly.

The purpose was not to say if the man existed or not.... but if he did start the notion that he was a prophet... or of someone else started it for him, possibly a few decades later.

[Minimalist]

Muhammad almost certainly existed.

Then you should have little trouble producing evidence to that effect.


(P.S. In this, the koran is just as much bullshit as the bible is with jesus. Let's see some actual evidence.)

[ReptilianPeon]

[CristW]

[JesusHChrist]

It seems that the shiah sources, if they are authentic, points to the existence of Prophet Muhammad. It is really the disagreement between shiah and sunni sources which allows the credibility of his existence.

Are any of those sources contemporary? Other than one disputed reference from 635, I can't find any reference to a "Mohamed" until about 100 years later.

Whether or not that single reference is sufficient...?

[pocaracas]

You know how Jesus and Mo are two very similar beasts?
Both only crop up in writing about 100 years after their alleged extraordinary actions.
It's like if people were hiding those wonderful feats until the commotion died out...
Or maybe... nah... maybe someone made them up somewhen before writing about it

[Wyrd of Gawd]

You know how Jesus and Mo are two very similar beasts?
Both only crop up in writing about 100 years after their alleged extraordinary actions.
It's like if people were hiding those wonderful feats until the commotion died out...
Or maybe... nah... maybe someone made them up somewhen before writing about it

All of the hadiths are pure BS that was made up centuries after Mo supposedly bit the dust.

[CapnAwesome]

[Minimalist]

And where is this "evidence?"

[CapnAwesome]

The purpose was not to say if the man existed or not.... but if he did start the notion that he was a prophet... or of someone else started it for him, possibly a few decades later.

I don't think that we have to establish that he wasn't a prophet. There is no such thing as prophets.

Whether or not Muhammad founded Islam or whatever language niggling people want to do, Islam fails because there is no god. If you don't believe in god, what the fuck is the point of niggling of small and hard to prove details of Islams founding? Islam is false not because Muhammad wasn't the primary source of it's spreading (which isn't a disputed fact anyway) but because the claims that metaphysical claims that it makes about the universe are so egregiously false.