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January 15, 2015 at 4:42 am (This post was last modified: January 15, 2015 at 4:43 am by robvalue.)
It's well known that the religion someone adopts is very likely to be the predominant religion in the area. I'm ignoring the various denominations and all that and talking about christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and so on. To me this suggests several possibilities:
1) There is only one God, but it was so inept at its communication with humans in various areas that they developed entirely different ideas about it, sometimes to the point of wanting to kill fellow confused believers. It can't or won't settle the matter.
2) There is one God, but he was quite happy to see his messages misinterpreted all over the place and was unable or unwilling to step in later to sort it out either.
3) There is one God, but it's the humans' fault that they have screwed up his interpretations so badly as to worship apparently different gods. God either can't or won't settle the matter.
4) There are several gods, with their influence felt greatest in certain areas, and very faintly in other areas.
5) There are no gods, as described so far by religion, and it's all made up. People are likely to just copy their parent's religion, or if they later have a "personal experience" it usually just happens to be confirmation of the most convenient, local religion.
Did I miss anything? My guess is that every theist goes with 3.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
I think it's the firm conclusion on the part of some theists that 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' which is the main roadblock to discussion and further exploration. It's these theists that can't/wont understand the illogicality of that poaition when it's parodied back at them. 'I believe this god is the one true God', 'that's what the Muslims say', 'well they're wrong!'
its bemusing but also rather perplexing. Claiming objective truth on a matter as nebulous as 'faith' just seem ridiculous to me. But there you are.
Must point out that this isn't a trait all theists adhere too, though. Many are open in saying they don't know either way
January 15, 2015 at 4:56 am (This post was last modified: January 15, 2015 at 5:34 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
As Mister Agenda said in a recent thread, religion is an accident of birth. Children inherit the common religion of their area. If there are more than one, they inherit the one their parents observe.
If their parents are non-observant, the child has a decent chance of avoiding the fate of becoming a raging twat.
January 15, 2015 at 5:17 am (This post was last modified: January 15, 2015 at 5:17 am by robvalue.)
I agree, the phrase, "the one true faith" makes me wince at what a contradiction in terms it is. If theists have any other options than the 5 I listed, I'd be interested to hear them. In fact, option 4 makes theists and god(s) look much better, overall.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
Just some more wood for the fire...
Don't you find it curious that the one true original god would have to write in stone a law that would prevent people from believing in other gods?
Where did these other gods come from?
Why would they believe in them, if the one true god had made Adam and Eve and they passed on the story of that single god... how did the others come about?
What was the one true god doing when those other gods were made up? sleeping on the job? and, a few hundreds of years later, had to do something about it?
It's well known that the religion someone adopts is very likely to be the predominant religion in the area. I'm ignoring the various denominations and all that and talking about christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and so on. To me this suggests several possibilities:
1) There is only one God, but it was so inept at its communication with humans in various areas that they developed entirely different ideas about it, sometimes to the point of wanting to kill fellow confused believers. It can't or won't settle the matter.
2) There is one God, but he was quite happy to see his messages misinterpreted all over the place and was unable or unwilling to step in later to sort it out either.
3) There is one God, but it's the humans' fault that they have screwed up his interpretations so badly as to worship apparently different gods. God either can't or won't settle the matter.
4) There are several gods, with their influence felt greatest in certain areas, and very faintly in other areas.
5) There are no gods, as described so far by religion, and it's all made up. People are likely to just copy their parent's religion, or if they later have a "personal experience" it usually just happens to be confirmation of the most convenient, local religion.
Did I miss anything? My guess is that every theist goes with 3.
Or... everyone is right and they simply latch onto the god or gods that best suit their psychology.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
(January 15, 2015 at 6:30 am)pocaracas Wrote: Just some more wood for the fire...
Don't you find it curious that the one true original god would have to write in stone a law that would prevent people from believing in other gods?
Where did these other gods come from?
Why would they believe in them, if the one true god had made Adam and Eve and they passed on the story of that single god... how did the others come about?
What was the one true god doing when those other gods were made up? sleeping on the job? and, a few hundreds of years later, had to do something about it?
I always find it funny that there is commonly a stage between deconverting from theist to atheist where a person will come to the conclusion that the god of their religion must have been made up entirely, but then they'll hold on to the concept of some form of god. If you look at it not as if there is a long history, but as if one man tells you he has discovered an omni-being just yesterday- he is the first person to ever be aware of the concept of god and he tells you first. Then you examine the claim and find that everything he says is baseless, so why would you then hold on to the concept of god?
It seems pretty clear to me that there were other gods around, from the language used at the very start of the bible. And, as you say, an obsession with banning and being jealous of other gods. That would make no sense if he knew there were no other gods. Seems like lack of continuity from stitched together nonsense.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
(January 15, 2015 at 7:43 am)robvalue Wrote: It seems pretty clear to me that there were other gods around, from the language used at the very start of the bible. And, as you say, an obsession with banning and being jealous of other gods. That would make no sense if he knew there were no other gods. Seems like lack of continuity from stitched together nonsense.
I've had a look but I can't find what I'm looking for (perhaps someone else can jump in here) I seem to remember there was a tribe found in some remote area that had not developed a religion, they were completely irreligious. Which is extremely unusual but interesting.
Anyone know anything about this?
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
(January 15, 2015 at 7:43 am)robvalue Wrote: It seems pretty clear to me that there were other gods around, from the language used at the very start of the bible. And, as you say, an obsession with banning and being jealous of other gods. That would make no sense if he knew there were no other gods. Seems like lack of continuity from stitched together nonsense.
I've had a look but I can't find what I'm looking for (perhaps someone else can jump in here) I seem to remember there was a tribe found in some remote area that had not developed a religion, they were completely irreligious. Which is extremely unusual but interesting.
![[Image: 146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i629.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu13%2FRXM843%2F146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif)
