Sins

[Joods]

Sin is like a Zombie virus.

If your infected even alittle then you can not mix with the rest of the population.

_________________________________________________

Lets say you are 10 and have the chicken pox. If your sibblings never had them then you would be seperated from everyone else. But if your sibblings had them already or have them while you have them, then it is ok for you to comingle.

The same is true with sin. Our seperation is being here on the planet away from the known glory of God. everyone here has or already had 'the chicken pox.'

I have bolded and made the text red to show emphasis.

First of all, I call bullshit. You have contradicted yourself (see the writing in red) You cannot say in one sentence that you can't mix, even a little bit and then turn around and say in another sentence that you can. It makes for a weakly constructed argument.

Second of all, you are comparing sin to both an imaginary "Zombie virus" and chicken pox. There are a few flaws with your arguments:
1. According to the bible*, we are born sick or unclean, or with sin or however you want to phrase it. *This is of course if you believe in sin and if you believe in the bible. But because I'm speaking to you, then it applies, because you believe.
If this is factually correct, then it would be impossible for you to compare it to your second flawed statement.

The second flawed statement: You infer from your statement above that there is the "possibility" that a person may not have ever had the chicken pox.

If this is true, then you cannot compare having the chicken pox to being born with sin because 100% of the people would have sin, while an indeterminate percentage of people would have chicken pox. That number can't be 100% simply because of the prior assertion that not everyone has ever had it.

Still with me? Great!

Third, there is no proof of the existence of any Zombie virus, so it would be extremely safe to say that you cannot compare it to sin either since 0% of the population would have this zombie virus (that is non-existent), whereas again, according to the bible, 100% of the population is born with sin.

Based upon the above information, it is impossible to say with any degree of certainty that your theory holds any sort of water.

[Norman Humann]

Again, sport asked and already answered.

Your pretending Homosexuality is a sin apart from all other sexual sin therefore needs special mentioning. This is not the case. Homosexuality is a sexual sin like anyother sexual sin, which needs the same repentance and attonement.

Your dishonesty is simply baffling, Drich. Bolding mine.

The difference? God does not santify a homosexual marriages. Therefore it is always a sin to have gay sex, where as hetro-sex has a santified pretext in which it is permitted.

The bible nor Christ provides an avenue in which God approves a homosexual marriage. Therefore ALL Homsexual sex is a sin..

And you even mention it again, contradicting yourself within one post. Stunning.

Your answer is found in Mat 5:

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21 “You have heard that it was said to our people long ago, ‘You must not murder anyone.[d] Any person who commits murder will be judged.’ 22 But I tell you, don’t be angry with anyone. If you are angry with others, you will be judged. And if you insult someone, you will be judged by the high court. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell.

23 “So, what if you are offering your gift at the altar and remember that someone has something against you? 24 Leave your gift there and go make peace with that person. Then come and offer your gift.

25 “If anyone wants to take you to court, make friends with them quickly. Try to do that before you get to the court. If you don’t, they might hand you over to the judge. And the judge will hand you over to a guard, who will throw you into jail. 26 I assure you that you will not leave there until you have paid everything you owe.

---

Really? Do enlighten me, where? I don't see a mention of intrusive or unwanted thoughts in there.

Because it is to whom thoughts are equilivent to actions that would determine whether or not one is jailed for his thoughts.

As the passage above explain Thoughts=Actions is how we will be judged by God... Because we are judged by God this way does not mean man will judge each other this way.

Why is the the standard we are using? Again I point to Mat 5. This thread is about sin and the nature of it as it pertains to Christianity. Therefore it is by the rules set down by Christ in Mat 5 pertaining to "Thought Crime or rather thought sin" that dictate what is and what is not relevent in this conversation.
Not what or how man judges one another.

Oh, right...

So you personally think that someone who thinks about murder is just as guilty as an actual murderer and should be punished the same way? And I say personally, mind you, so do leave the actual legal aspect out of it.

[Cyberman]

No wonder priests in the Middle Ages had to whip themselves.

Which in itself often amounted to sexual gratification.

Opus Dei, anyone?

The Twentieth Century dragged right back to the Fourteenth.

[KevinM1]

Sin is awesome because it's an ever present condition that creates a need. That need is constant attempts at atonement through rites, rituals, sermons, confessions, etc. And the really great thing about it is that just when a person thinks they may be on the path of atonement, some new sin pops up. It could be something the person did or even thought. So the person is told to double down. Pray harder. Read the bible more. Become more active in the church. All the while, they're slowly harming themselves by becoming ever more dependent on the religion to filter their thoughts and behavior. It's amazing.

Religion - cigarettes for the mind.

[Joods]

I notice how my post has yet to be answered. Still waiting for a logical reply to my arguments.

Edited because apparently I addressed it to the wrong person.

[Drich]

How did I miss this Jem?

I have bolded and made the text red to show emphasis.

First of all, I call bullshit. You have contradicted yourself (see the writing in red) You cannot say in one sentence that you can't mix, even a little bit and then turn around and say in another sentence that you can. It makes for a weakly constructed argument.

Actually one can. The two examples are indeed valid examples of that practice in everyday life.

In the examples I gave I proove that it is never ok to mix an infected person with a general population that isnot protected from your disease. But at the same time I provided you with an example from real life that would allow for someone with a given disease to intermingle with a general population. In that the general population must all be inoculated from that disease.

Second of all, you are comparing sin to both an imaginary "Zombie virus" and chicken pox. There are a few flaws with your arguments:
1. According to the bible*, we are born sick or unclean, or with sin or however you want to phrase it. *This is of course if you believe in sin and if you believe in the bible. But because I'm speaking to you, then it applies, because you believe.
If this is factually correct, then it would be impossible for you to compare it to your second flawed statement.

Where does we are born with this affliction? In Romans 7:8-12 tells us specifically when and where this affliction takes us. This was not from birth, this was at the moment we received/understood the law.

That said if you wish to "speak the bible to me" the as I have proved book chapter and verse as I have, and don't ask me to place faith in a miso theist interpretation of the bible.
This may work with your buddies, but here I am trying to raise the bar of biblical understanding.

The second flawed statement: You infer from your statement above that there is the "possibility" that a person may not have ever had the chicken pox.

One does not have to know of the chicken pox to be subject to it.

If this is true, then you cannot compare having the chicken pox to being born with sin because 100% of the people would have sin, while an indeterminate percentage of people would have chicken pox. That number can't be 100% simply because of the prior assertion that not everyone has ever had it.

Well, what if what you said is not true? It would stand to reason because your objection is not true the point stands..

Still with me? Great!

I will try and keep up

Third, there is no proof of the existence of any Zombie virus, so it would be extremely safe to say that you cannot compare it to sin either since 0% of the population would have this zombie virus (that is non-existent), whereas again, according to the bible, 100% of the population is born with sin.

I noticed you only spoke to 1/3 of the actual arguement. Are the chicken pox real? Does society have quarantine measures in place? Are inoculations real? Do the keep us safe from the effects of a virus?

But I guess that's the point of building straw men.

Based upon the above information, it is impossible to say with any degree of certainty that your theory holds any sort of water.

Good thing I'm not trying to 'hold water.'

---

Sin is awesome because it's an ever present condition that creates a need. That need is constant attempts at atonement through rites, rituals, sermons, confessions, etc. And the really great thing about it is that just when a person thinks they may be on the path of atonement, some new sin pops up. It could be something the person did or even thought. So the person is told to double down. Pray harder. Read the bible more. Become more active in the church. All the while, they're slowly harming themselves by becoming ever more dependent on the religion to filter their thoughts and behavior. It's amazing.

Religion - cigarettes for the mind.

Once one repents what rights or rituals do you think you need?

---

I notice how my post addressed to Huggy has yet to be answered. Still waiting for a logical reply to my arguments.

I'll give it a crack if you give me the post number

[Joods]

You speak in circles. Your word salad won't work on me, dude.

[Drich]

You speak in circles. Your word salad won't work on me, dude.

So... What? No book chapter and verse, to support your version of sin?

That's the thing sport it is word salad if you hold tight to church tradition and how it views sin, but if the bible is you guide then what I've said here works well.

[wiploc]

A comment in another thread made me want to ask this to the Christians on this forum.

I am not a Christian, but I'll offer a perspective anyway, since I never see anyone else tell it this way.

What is sin?

Sin is doubting or disobeying Jehovah. Doubting is the bigger part of that. Eve's first sin wasn't when she bit the apple; it was when she entertained the serpent's argument.

Do you believe thoughts can be sins?

Doubt is a sin, yes.

Do you think that you have to act on thoughts for them to become sins?

No.

Are some sins worse than others?

You can think of some as worse that others if you want (I certainly do) but even the tiniest sin is enough to earn you eternal Hellfire. And that's what the big sins do too. So, in that sense, they are all equal.

You cannot come before god (go to Heaven) with any blemish on your soul, and any sin, big or little, counts as a blemish.

[Joods]

So... What? No book chapter and verse, to support your version of sin?

First and foremost, since I have yet to see proof of any god, I don't believe in the concept of sin. Thus, I don't have a version of it. The burden of proof isn't on ME to help you make YOUR argument. You're an adult. Make it yourself and answer my post without trying to put it back on me.

This is just another weak attempt for you to get around my post where your bullshit and contradictions have been called into question and you refuse to answer with anything that is relevant.

I have just as much of a right to pick apart your theories and call you into question as anyone else. Going off of YOUR post, I can ask questions that make you use logic. I don't have to quote anything from the bible, but since you are Soooo insistent:

Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god,

Psalms 58:3 Even from birth, the wicked go astray.

Shall I cite more, sport?

---

You cannot say in one sentence that you can't mix, even a little bit and then turn around and say in another sentence that you can. It makes for a weakly constructed argument.

Actually one can. The two examples are indeed valid examples of that practice in everyday life.

In what way are contradictions valid? They aren't.

In the examples I gave I proove that it is never ok to mix an infected person with a general population that isnot protected from your disease. But at the same time I provided you with an example from real life that would allow for someone with a given disease to intermingle with a general population. In that the general population must all be inoculated from that disease.

All you are doing is repeating what I challenged. That doesn't do shit but make for circular talk and avoidance of addressing the issue.

Second of all, you are comparing sin to both an imaginary "Zombie virus" and chicken pox. There are a few flaws with your arguments:
1. According to the bible*, we are born sick or unclean, or with sin or however you want to phrase it. *This is of course if you believe in sin and if you believe in the bible. But because I'm speaking to you, then it applies, because you believe.
If this is factually correct, then it would be impossible for you to compare it to your second flawed statement.

You then ask:

Where does we are born with this affliction?

Right here, sport:

Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me; and here -

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god; and here -

Psalms 58:3 Even from birth, the wicked go astray.

That said if you wish to "speak the bible to me" the as I have proved book chapter and verse as I have, and don't ask me to place faith in a miso theist interpretation of the bible.

You have only proved that you can't answer truthfully for the contradictions you've made. Furthermore, I didn't ask you to place faith in anything. I'll thank you for not sticking words in my mouth.

This may work with your buddies, but here I am trying to raise the bar of biblical understanding.

You are? By contradicting yourself and making no sense? I can see how far you'll get with that one.

One does not have to know of the chicken pox to be subject to it.

In this day and age, you'll be very hard pressed to find anyone who has never heard of chicken pox. But, feel free to find someone and bring them into this debate.

If this is true, then you cannot compare having the chicken pox to being born with sin because 100% of the people would have sin, while an indeterminate percentage of people would have chicken pox. That number can't be 100% simply because of the prior assertion that not everyone has ever had it.

Well, what if what you said is not true? It would stand to reason because your objection is not true the point stands..

Prove what I said isn't true. Provide statistical, documented proof. I'll wait. Total avoidance of addressing my point. So predictable.

I noticed you only spoke to 1/3 of the actual arguement. Are the chicken pox real? Does society have quarantine measures in place? Are inoculations real? Do the keep us safe from the effects of a virus?

Considering that I'm not the one making the absurd comparisons between imaginary zombie viruses, sin and chicken pox, I believe I stayed on point. I have nothing to prove since it wasn't my comments that were being called into question in the first place. And again, you haven't even addressed the issues of this imaginary zombie virus. Since you have yet to make a decent challenge, you have answered NONE of my post.