Should the Palestinians have an independent state?

[abaris]

Giving them their own state is the only chance for peace. Of course the christian rightwingers and the rightwingers in Israel don't want that. The christian nutjobs because of their Armageddon porn, as one of our esteemed members never fails to point out, the Israeli branch of nutty because it's the only way to get them reelected. The only card in their political deck is fear and once that's gone, the people would see what fundamental fuckups they really are when it comes to run a country.

[Anomalocaris]

Disturbing, isn't it? Israel is the most extreme irredentist state in the world, lead by people so obsurd they could almost be mistaken for the "professor", at a time when everywhere else in the world irredentism is regarded as root of violence and strife unable to breed anything but counter-irredentism and further violence.

[Dystopia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHC8KC5cLs8


Is Pat Condell right? I don't know a lot about Israelo-Palestinian conflict - I think both states ought to exist. I don't care if they're run by nutjobs, it's not my country.

[abaris]

I don't care if they're run by nutjobs, it's not my country.

But you should care, since it concerns us all. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is one at the very root of islamic extremism. So nutters running one or both sides isn't exactly helping matters.

Netanjahu isn't a religious extremist. He's a political extremist, who caters to religious extremists to stay in power. His social and economical record is abysmal. The only card he has to play is war and fear of war. That's what keeps him in power and that's also why he's got no interest in negotiating a peace deal. If there was peace, the Israeli people would notice that the emperor got no clothes.

[Dystopia]

I don't care if they're run by nutjobs, it's not my country.

But you should care, since it concerns us all. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is one at the very root of islamic extremism. So nutters running one or both sides isn't exactly helping matters.

Netanjahu isn't a religious extremist. He's a political extremist, who caters to religious extremists to stay in power. His social and economical record is abysmal. The only card he has to play is war and fear of war. That's what keeps him in power and that's also why he's got no interest in negotiating a peace deal. If there was peace, the Israeli people would notice that the emperor got no clothes.

Indeed it does, that's why I'm asking who's right or at least more right - Strategically speaking, if both sides are wrong I don't side with anyone. What should we do them? Peace doesn't seem to work for them.

[abaris]

Indeed it does, that's why I'm asking who's right or at least more right - Strategically speaking, if both sides are wrong I don't side with anyone. What should we do them? Peace doesn't seem to work for them.

They both live there for thousands of years. Both are semitic people, so they share a common root. So both are right and wrong at the same time. Right because it is their ancestral home, wrong because of the way they go about it.

[Dystopia]

Indeed you are right

A genetic study has suggested that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, could be descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times. A study of high-resolution haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Israeli Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.

In recent years, many genetic studies have demonstrated that, at least paternally, most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions and the Palestinians – and in some cases other Levantines – are genetically closer to each other than the Palestinians or European Jews to non-Jewish Europeans.[111]

One DNA study by Nebel found genetic evidence in support of historical records that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD".[111] They also found substantial genetic overlap between Muslim Palestinians and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, though with some significant differences that might be explainable by the geographical isolation of the Jews and by immigration of Arab tribes in the first millennium

I don't think both states should be unified because it seems to go against the people's will, and there's nothing worse than going against the people's will in subjects so important as national identity - It would equal annexation in my opinion. They should be able to coexist

[vorlon13]

Regarding the imminent bloody civil war if Palestinian statehood is achieved, if one were really concerned about Palestinian lives, one would oppose statehood till it is demonstrated it can be accomplished without violence.

I'm not holding my breath.

We haven't addressed the crippling corruption in the PA either, and that hemorrhage of resources needs to be abated immediately, again, for the good of the Palestinians, which, does not seem to be much of a concern . . .


I'm detecting a couple of patterns.

[Anomalocaris]

Palastinian state could easily have achieved cohesion and internal peace after 1992, but for Israeli policy to brand any leading palastinian influence as terrorists so as to undermine palastinian authority, keep palastinians at each other's throats, And thwart the possibility of any cohesive palastinian state.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Some atheists you guys are...
Israel is a founded theocracy, it hides it's religious control but nothing can be done that crosses the religious Zionistic theme. Fuck them. Treat all people equally, compensate those that were displaced and give the property back to the original owners. Give everyone a vote and the majority arabs will get rid of all remnants of the the stupid zionistic state.

How another people choose to live is not my business, as an American.

As for giving the property back to the original owners, I'm not sure how that will work, given that the vast majority are deceased. Do you mean give it to their heirs?

And are you willing to do that for every instance of expropriation we see in the world around us?

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Palastinian state could easily have achieved cohesion and internal peace after 1992, but for Israeli policy to brand any leading palastinian influence as terrorists so as to undermine palastinian authority, keep palastinians at each other's throats, And thwart the possibility of any cohesive palastinian state.

... not to mention the use of economic levers in order to cripple the Palestinian economy at leisure.