The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[Faith No More]

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Chad32 God is merciful to the virgin who didn't get wiped out with her nation and He is just for wiping out the nation. I will admit it is not the easiest thing to read but the truth is we all deserve death because whether you like it or not God has the final say. Whether you believe it or not He is also a just God. We have all broken His law and done our own thing. The man who continues to rape will have to face judgment for his crimes. In the old testament if the rapist continued to rape he would have eventually been stoned if the Israelite people were truly following the law. (remember the law for the disobedient son) Then He would have to face the judgment seat of God and received eternal damnation. Everyone's wrong doing will be paid for one way or another. God in his mercy made a way to fix us by having Jesus die for out sins on the cross. So if you choose to follow Him He will change you from the inside out. If you do not wish His gift of salvation then you will receive the punishment you deserve.

Judi Lynn if you don't know where you acquired your sense of right and wrong how can you be sure you didn't get it from God?

Robvalue it can be verified by meeting Him, by studying His word. He says Seek and you will find Knock and the door will be opened. Then later in the same passage (Luke 11) He says if you ask Him he will give you the Holy spirit. This life of faith has less to do with what you can do and more about being available to Him. You must be humble but if you have a mindset that He doesn't exist then you can not be saved or know Him because you will never seek Him out. He is not what you think and the more I get to know Him the more I realize the He is not what I think He is either. God is not asking for blind belief He is asking you to act upon the information He has already presented. He has left behind His word in the Bible. His Spirit in His believer. His command for His believer to tell others and live out a life that glorifies Him. He has also shown it in science and history.

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To an outsider, you sound like someone that has Stockholm syndrome or is suffering at the hands of an abuser.  Listen to how you talk about how God created us in this rigged game where we were destined to fail and we're supposed to be grateful for him giving us a way out.  Not only is there no good evidence for this God, he sure doesn't sound like one worthy of worship.

[Polaris]

Jesus does act better than Yahweh. Which really isn't saying a whole lot. It's like saying guy A is an asshole, but at least he's not a complete psychopath like guy B is. Although you still have people saying guy A is guy B showing his nicer side. Which in the end still isn't all that great.

Jesus acts a lot better than you.

[Silver]

Jesus acts a lot better than you.

Considering Jesus is a fictional character, I am certain Chas is not that intimidated.

[Jenny A]

As a Christian I think it is very dangerous to pick and choose from the bible because, you are correct Mental Outlaw, the New Testament is dependent upon the Old Testament and God hasn't changed from one testament to the other. I would like to ask all of you a question. Do you not pick and choose as an atheist? You say God is evil but where are you getting your standard for what is evil? I can say something is evil because I have an absolute standard on what I base evil off of which is God and what He says about himself. So where are you getting you standard of evil from?

When told that a book is inerrant, it's natural to point out the parts that aren't.  When told that god is all good, it's natural to point out when his behavior is otherwise.  That's not picking and choosing, that's demonstrating that those claims are false.  

I get my standard of evil from empathy, reason, and my cultural background.  I decide if people are evil or not based on thier actions not what they say about themselves.  Hitler had a high opinion of his own morality.  Does that make him a good man? The god of the OT commits genocide regularly, accepts the sacrifice of young woman, kills babies for the sins of their fathers, and his first comandment is that he be placed above all else.  So what the Bible tells me about god's actions demonstrates that god has little reason or empathy, and that the cultural background of those that made him up was brutal.   The god of the NT believes that bloodletting is the only cure for sin, punishes people eternally for not believing in him, suggests people hate their families, and speaks in riddles.  He's evil too, but the culture that made him up wasn't quite so brutal.

[Chad32]

Jesus does act better than Yahweh. Which really isn't saying a whole lot. It's like saying guy A is an asshole, but at least he's not a complete psychopath like guy B is. Although you still have people saying guy A is guy B showing his nicer side. Which in the end still isn't all that great.

Jesus acts a lot better than you.

Oh the burn! It hurts! You're going to have to ask forgiveness for setting me on fire now. That's how thought-crime works.

[robvalue]

Jesus stands by and watches little children being raped, thus protecting the free will of the rapist. But oh boy, when that rapist finally dies, is he going to get it! Unless the rapist says he is sorry. Then it's OK.

Oh he's raping another one! Erm, free will. Some bitch ate my dad's fruit ages ago and I'm so mad! I'm taking it out on everyone ever.

Fucking fig trees!

[Fidel_Castronaut]

As a Christian I think it is very dangerous to pick and choose from the bible because, you are correct Mental Outlaw, the New Testament is dependent upon the Old Testament and God hasn't changed from one testament to the other. I would like to ask all of you a question. Do you not pick and choose as an atheist? You say God is evil but where are you getting your standard for what is evil? I can say something is evil because I have an absolute standard on what I base evil off of which is God and what He says about himself. So where are you getting you standard of evil from?

I was born lacking any sort of belief or knowledge in/of a deity and I've remained so thus far.

It's not really fair to call it a choice. I have a minimum level/standard when it comes to claims I want evidence for, and thus far no god's have ever even come close to reaching that minimum level.

So it'd be more correct to say that I've remained an atheist thus far because there's been no reason given to me to make me think my stance is incorrect.

[Rekeisha]

Chad32 where do you get your knowledge of right and wrong from? I believe you stated it before but if you don't mind restating it.

Crossless1 I know why a cat is a lower being than a human but why do you think that?

Robvalue You say it is God's fault that you don't believe is this an assertion? On what authority are you making this statement?

Faith No More You just made a value statement where do your values come from?

Jenny A where does your reason and empathy come from? Is everything you learned from your background correct?

Pandaemonium so you are the judge of who God is? Does that mean you posses all the knowledge necessary to know who God is? Also what is truth?

[Chad32]

My life experiences and the people I interact with help develop my feelings of right and wrong. Also anything that can be proven true or false objectively helps. Just to name an extreme example, I know throwing people into volcanoes to appease the volcano gods is wrong, because I know how volcanoes actually work. To name a more mundane example, I know that abortion is fine in the early stages because at some point the nervous system and neo cortex have not developed. So you literally aren't dealing with a thinking, feeling thing for the first three months or so.

Right and wrong is subjective, but you can use objectively proven things to help guide right and wrong.

[robvalue]

Reik: assuming God made me how he wanted me, then yes it's his fault I don't believe in him. He gave me a brain which he knew would reject the evidence he gave me. Do you disagree? What could I do differently? What wrong assumptions have I made?