The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[Chad32]

There is only one god, therefore Krishna is real is real. How else would we account for hinduism being the oldest active religion in the world?

[Rekeisha]

So you are an animal, a creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed? If you are an animal then you have no rights. You can be used caged or leashed without any out cry because you are just an animal.

Yes, we are animals. That's the taxonomy. We belong in the animal kingdom.

But we do have rights. That's why they're called human rights. Being an animal doesn't exclude you from being human. Basic biology.

If as you say you are biologically animals then by what authority do you have to say you have any right at all? By your world view you are just an evolved animal.

[Rekeisha]

How can you account for objective data? Since you have already stated that societies have subjective morals then there are no objective right and wrong, which means there is no true right and wrong. Since you believe that there is no Creator who gave us worth and meaning then your world view can't account for any true worth or mean. I don' know if you like him or not but Richard Dawkins has already said "The universe ... no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” So if you are going to be consistent with your world view then you shouldn't get mad at any injustice.

There are objective things in this world. Morality just isn't one of them. We have data on how societies do in the long term, especially as time moves on and we can see the histories of countries around the world. We can find out what works, and what doesn't.

Worth and meaning is a personal question. I give myself worth and meaning. You do too. You just decided to let a religion give you your worth and meaning.

You seem to be equating atheism with nihilism. I'm not a nihilist who thinks there's no point in anything. I have my own idea about it. It's subjective, but I try to derive it through objective means.

I can't speak for what Dawkins means, and haven't read his books.

If there is an objective wrong then there is a right and wrong outside of ourselves a moral law and that was established by God outside of humanity. He has the authority to enforce this law and has put that law inside of humans. 
Or there is only a subjective right and wrong which means there is no right and wrong and therefor your case against God is pointless in fact your case against any act you see as wrong is pointless and you are working yourself up for nothing.

Does your meaning change when you feel down on yourself or rise when you do what you like? If you never achieve your goals in life or they crumble in front of you are you then a worthless person?

I don't give myself worth and meaning God does. You act like I just decided one day that I would be a Christian after surveying all the options. Or that just because my parents were or I grew up in a semi-Christian country I became one. I meet God and believed what He said about Himself. There hasn't been a day that He has left me or hasn't done what He has said that He would do.

[Chad32]

There are objective things in this world. Morality just isn't one of them. We have data on how societies do in the long term, especially as time moves on and we can see the histories of countries around the world. We can find out what works, and what doesn't.

Worth and meaning is a personal question. I give myself worth and meaning. You do too. You just decided to let a religion give you your worth and meaning.

You seem to be equating atheism with nihilism. I'm not a nihilist who thinks there's no point in anything. I have my own idea about it. It's subjective, but I try to derive it through objective means.

I can't speak for what Dawkins means, and haven't read his books.

If there is an objective wrong then there is a right and wrong outside of ourselves a moral law and that was established by God outside of humanity. He has the authority to enforce this law and has put that law inside of humans. 
Or there is only a subjective right and wrong which means there is no right and wrong and therefor your case against God is pointless in fact your case against any act you see as wrong is pointless and you are working yourself up for nothing.

Does your meaning change when you feel down on yourself or rise when you do what you like? If you never achieve your goals in life or they crumble in front of you are you then a worthless person?

I don't give myself worth and meaning God does. You act like I just decided one day that I would be a Christian after surveying all the options. Or that just because my parents were or I grew up in a semi-Christian country I became one. I meet God and believed what He said about Himself. There hasn't been a day that He has left me or hasn't done what He has said that He would do.

What god says is right and wrong is as subjective as anything else. I already mentioned how there are some people you can kill, and some people you're not supposed to. So ending someone's life is not objectively wrong. You can be killed for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week, but if you rape an unbetrothed and unmarried girl outside of ton you just pay a fine. These rules are entirely based on the whim of someone, which makes it subjective. You just refuse to listen. I don't know how to make my point any more clear that just because morality is subjective, it doesn't mean we have no basis on how to function as a society.

The meaning I give in life should keep me from getting down for long. If I achieve my goal, or it becomes unattainable, I give my life a new meaning. It's a process. One of the meanings in my life was to grow up, get a job, and move out. I have accomplished that goal. Now it is to maintain my existence while still finding time to enjoy myself. maybe make improvements on my life in some ways. I know people have made this out to be a complicated thing, but I think the problem is because they're trying to find the One True Meaning. I just simplify it.

You may or may not have been raised christian. after you got older, you decided to remain that way. It is your choice of what to do with your life, whether you follow religion or not. Hopefully no one is holding you back, or threatening harm, if you decided to leave. I know christians can be rather violent towards people who leave the faith sometimes. You believe you found god, and decided to worship him. That's your choice. It's just not mine.

[Longhorn]

Yes, we are animals. That's the taxonomy. We belong in the animal kingdom.

But we do have rights. That's why they're called human rights. Being an animal doesn't exclude you from being human. Basic biology.

If as you say you are biologically animals then by what authority do you have to say you have any right at all? By your world view you are just an evolved animal.

Because we're humans. Read what I wrote ._.

And the are also animal rights. And the is no such thing as an objective right, all those are made up by us, for ourselves

[Rekeisha]

If there is an objective wrong then there is a right and wrong outside of ourselves a moral law and that was established by God outside of humanity. He has the authority to enforce this law and has put that law inside of humans. 
Or there is only a subjective right and wrong which means there is no right and wrong and therefor your case against God is pointless in fact your case against any act you see as wrong is pointless and you are working yourself up for nothing.

Does your meaning change when you feel down on yourself or rise when you do what you like? If you never achieve your goals in life or they crumble in front of you are you then a worthless person?

I don't give myself worth and meaning God does. You act like I just decided one day that I would be a Christian after surveying all the options. Or that just because my parents were or I grew up in a semi-Christian country I became one. I meet God and believed what He said about Himself. There hasn't been a day that He has left me or hasn't done what He has said that He would do.

What god says is right and wrong is as subjective as anything else. I already mentioned how there are some people you can kill, and some people you're not supposed to. So ending someone's life is not objectively wrong. You can be killed for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week, but if you rape an unbetrothed and unmarried girl outside of ton you just pay a fine. These rules are entirely based on the whim of someone, which makes it subjective. You just refuse to listen. I don't know how to make my point any more clear that just because morality is subjective, it doesn't mean we have no basis on how to function as a society.

The meaning I give in life should keep me from getting down for long. If I achieve my goal, or it becomes unattainable, I give my life a new meaning. It's a process. One of the meanings in my life was to grow up, get a job, and move out. I have accomplished that goal. Now it is to maintain my existence while still finding time to enjoy myself. maybe make improvements on my life in some ways. I know people have made this out to be a complicated thing, but I think the problem is because they're trying to find the One True Meaning. I just simplify it.

You may or may not have been raised christian. after you got older, you decided to remain that way. It is your choice of what to do with your life, whether you follow religion or not. Hopefully no one is holding you back, or threatening harm, if you decided to leave. I know christians can be rather violent towards people who leave the faith sometimes. You believe you found god, and decided to worship him. That's your choice. It's just not mine.

Your are right everything is subject to God because His very existence creates absolute truths.
Since there is absolute moral truth that isn't subject to man how does your world view account for that?
Since you have admitted there is a wrong way to live that is not subject to humans. Then there must be a right way to live that is not subject to humans so how do you know that you are living is the right way?

[Rekeisha]

If as you say you are biologically animals then by what authority do you have to say you have any right at all? By your world view you are just an evolved animal.

Because we're humans. Read what I wrote ._.

And the are also animal rights. And the is no such thing as an objective right, all those are made up by us, for ourselves

If there is no objective truth then you can make those statement about being human and animal right and since those statements, in your world view, are made up someone else can come by tomorrow as redefine everything. So either people are humans because of an absolute truth and we have rights based on that truth or we are humans because we say we are and we have no right other than the ones we make up. If the latter is right then being caged and leashed aren't wrong because someone can make up other rights based on their beliefs.

[Chad32]

What god says is right and wrong is as subjective as anything else. I already mentioned how there are some people you can kill, and some people you're not supposed to. So ending someone's life is not objectively wrong. You can be killed for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week, but if you rape an unbetrothed and unmarried girl outside of ton you just pay a fine. These rules are entirely based on the whim of someone, which makes it subjective. You just refuse to listen. I don't know how to make my point any more clear that just because morality is subjective, it doesn't mean we have no basis on how to function as a society.

The meaning I give in life should keep me from getting down for long. If I achieve my goal, or it becomes unattainable, I give my life a new meaning. It's a process. One of the meanings in my life was to grow up, get a job, and move out. I have accomplished that goal. Now it is to maintain my existence while still finding time to enjoy myself. maybe make improvements on my life in some ways. I know people have made this out to be a complicated thing, but I think the problem is because they're trying to find the One True Meaning. I just simplify it.

You may or may not have been raised christian. after you got older, you decided to remain that way. It is your choice of what to do with your life, whether you follow religion or not. Hopefully no one is holding you back, or threatening harm, if you decided to leave. I know christians can be rather violent towards people who leave the faith sometimes. You believe you found god, and decided to worship him. That's your choice. It's just not mine.

Your are right everything is subject to God because His very existence creates absolute truths.
Since there is absolute moral truth that isn't subject to man how does your world view account for that?
Since you have admitted there is a wrong way to live that is not subject to humans. Then there must be a right way to live that is not subject to humans so how do you know that you are living is the right way?

That is not what I said. What I'm saying is that if morals come from someone, be they man or god, it is subjective. That is what subjective means. If it was objective, it would be separate from god, and he wouldn't be correct by default.

I don't account for absolute moral truth, because I don't believe it exists. I don't believe that homosexuality is an abomination, or that slavery, rape, genocide, and human sacrifice is ok within certain restrictions just because I read it in a book. Or that thoughts equal actions, and that killing an innocent person can absolve the guilty of their crimes, or that infinite punishment for finite crimes is a just system, just because I read it in a book.

I can do some research into objective data, that can influence my subjective morality, so I have a more clear idea of how I should live. I have already gone over this. I don't know how to be more clear to you.

[Longhorn]

Because we're humans. Read what I wrote ._.

And the are also animal rights. And the is no such thing as an objective right, all those are made up by us, for ourselves

If there is no objective truth then you can make those statement about being human and animal right and since those statements, in your world view, are made up someone else can come by tomorrow as redefine everything. So either people are humans because of an absolute truth and we have rights based on that truth or we are humans because we say we are and we have no right other than the ones we make up. If the latter is right then being caged and leashed aren't wrong because someone can make up other rights based on their beliefs.

._.

Humans are animals. That's the fucking taxonomy of our species. We are humans because we are humans. We don't need to say so.

Yes, the only laws that exist are the ones we've made up! Why do you think they change all the time?

Right and wrong, rights, laws and truth are all just our perception. And why wouldn't they be? What, do you think morality is some sort of an intrinsic property of the universe? We made them up, or rather we evolved them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

And as to being caged and leashed, your god doesn't exactly object to that, either.

Tell me:

What other rights would we have that we didn't make up?
What does truth mean?
Can you demonstrate objective morality?

[loganonekenobi]

It's easy for us to attack the Christian thought(since it is everywhere in America) but (since for some reason i cant post any threads) I'dd like to adress then the question of... Is any religion worth following. For example, I like some of the ideas of Buhdism. I like the yoga of Hinduism. It's kind of cool to think that there really is a Valhala in which you party and fight untill armegedon. So many other beliefs are put out there but is there any reason to follow them?