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(March 27, 2015 at 8:02 am)professor Wrote: The logo for BHO,(the US president) a Muslim, is the rising sun, who comes out of the West, and whose name means-
"he with us" in Farsi, is that antichrist- he will perish at the 2nd Coming.
Because America > the rest of the world
"Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics [sic]. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant.
Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.
Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.
Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
March 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm (This post was last modified: March 27, 2015 at 3:03 pm by Mystic.)
Alex K.
The signs of God in ourselves and the signs in the horizons is by which God says people will come to know the Quran is true.
The first chapter begins by stating, it is by the name of God that all praise belongs to God.
Imam Ali is quoted to have said: Praise be to Allah who made praise the Key for His remembrance, a means for increase of His bounty and a guide/proof for His Bounties and Greatness.
Now praise is in fact light from God, and God is the light of the light.
Imam Jaffar is quoted to have said:
Following the example of another is nothing more than what has been bestowed upon the spirit at its origin, when the light of time was mixed with that of eternity.
As eternity is mixed in temporal light, the light is both temporal and eternal. It's mix and relationship to the eternal reality, reveals it's eternal nature.
The praise in ourselves and the knowledge of praise in ourselves is of the signs of God. As our knowledge of it knows of the horizons which is endless ranks of ascension in praise, we know that the source of it is absolute in praise.
Now that praise in us contains all the divine Names, and the divine names of God have filled the foundation of all things. "by your names that have filled the foundation of all things" - Du'a Kumail.
The reason is because the praise praises qualities and virtues and names of actions and we know there is eternalness to such praise, by virtue of it being mixed.
The other issue aside from the eternalness, is the living essence of morality and praise and greatness. These are not as imagined by atheists to be some sort of concept that we apply to ourselves, but rather it's a living reality, and the source of morality is a living essence, and goodness is not simply a concept we go by, but a living reality, a force, a power.
This sign can be seen within us and upon the horizons, that we are attached to praise, goodness, and greatness, but that it's due to it being a living reality, and not simply a concept.
The nature of blessings we have, are such that they descend from the sky of God and upon God's earth everything grows, and so we can see the nature of blessings have there origin in the ultimate blessed eternal highest reality.
The one who takes the souls to account and makes us inherit praise from praiseworthy actions and condemnation from condemned actions, is manifest as well, through the nature that everyone attaches value to people by their actions and believes their value changes.
The system of reward to the soul and disgrace to the soul, honor and disgrace by actions, is well known and manifest to us all, because we are all connected to that knowledge of the unseen by seeing it in ourselves. But this only makes sense with a Lord who knows the value of each soul and makes it inherit it's actions.
(March 27, 2015 at 4:48 am)jesus_wept Wrote: Do you not see that Allah has subjected to you whatever is on the earth and the ships which run through the sea by His command? And He restrains the sky from falling upon the earth, unless by His permission. Indeed Allah , to the people, is Kind and Merciful.
The Quran wasn't written by the creator of the universe, it was written by a moron who didn't have a clue how the universe worked.
The Quran says it has given from all type of parables. Notice it says "except by his permission". This means sometimes Allah allows the sky to fall upon the earth. But what is meant by sky is not the physical sky, and what is meant by earth is not the physical earth.
I suggest you look at other verses that use sky and earth, and you will see it talks about it as spiritual realities in which the soul has a relationship to.
For example it states if whether Mohammad can bring an opening to the earth or a ladder to the sky to bring a sign to them, in which he does for believers but cannot do for the unjust, as they are veiled, and it would harm them if he did so in their state.
Other verses say if God opened them doors to the heavens they would be unjust in their ascension.
So God holds the sky from descending upon the earth except by his permission.
And in Du'a Nudba it said "Where is the link between the sky and the earth"
Sky refers to a higher reality.
And there is other verses people often take literally too which are parables like when the Quran says the sky and the earth was one, it's not talking about big bang, as can't expect people to know that by saying "do they not see that...", but rather it's talking about a spiritual reality that can be witnessed by knowing we come from God and return to God.
Likewise when it says we brought down water from the sky to repel the uncleanness of the devil on believers on a certain day, it's not talking about physical sky or physical water.
And the same is true when it says his throne was upon water. Or when it says he created everything from water.
And when he is talking about constantly expanding the sky, it's not talking about the physical universe, although it is true, but about a higher reality, because Quran is not concerned with bestowing scientific knowledge, if that was the goal of the Quran, then it didn't do very well. I don't blame you for this literal-ism because even Muslims do it.
There is other parables with day and night, sun and moon and stars, the hadiths talk about it. Even mountains in Quran are parables referring to his chosen ones in most places if not all but people want to make it about some scientific fact!
I also think when we read a book, we should read it charitably, not always assume the worse possible meaning and ignore any possible majestic meanings.
(March 27, 2015 at 4:29 am)robvalue Wrote: Did you notice how he says about a hundred times in the Quran how non believers will face a fiery doom?
I think it means disbelieving in guidance of God after it's become manifest to them. There is various verses stating those conditions, and the other verses that don't mention those conditions should be interpreted in light of that.
The Quran says God doesn't love disbelievers and unjust, but then tells us it didn't forbid love from those who didn't fight the believers. That showed mushrikeen were those who associated with knowledge, and after knowing the truth and hating it, prosecuted the believers. Those who didn't fight them, the Quran is showing they didn't get to the unjust state of shirk (associating with God) and kufr (disbelief) because they don't know better and God doesn't forbid love from these people. However he specifically forbade love from those who God's wrath is upon showing that believers were not to consider those who didn't fight them as people who were disbelievers and mushrikeen or that they were unjust.
And there is verses that talk about God rewarding those who do good from humanity and that hell is only for the most wicked.
The truth is if you are following and believing in the moral guidance that has come to you, and you are following what you know, than you are a believer per Quran.
You are only a disbeliever when proof has come to you otherwise, you deeply inwardly know the truth, yet you hate God's pleasure and follow the falsehood. This is when you become a follower of falsehood, hating God's pleasure, and deserving God's wrath.
And the last verse of Suratal Fatiha distinguishes from those who God's wrath is upon and all astray, showing God's wrath is not upon all astray people.
Plus the Quran talked about people who have no way to belief in the religion and as well talked about those who's hearts are inclined (but are not believers), and it mentioned them with forgiveness.
March 27, 2015 at 5:11 pm (This post was last modified: March 27, 2015 at 5:11 pm by RobertE.)
(March 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Alex K.
The signs of God in ourselves and the signs in the horizons is by which God says people will come to know the Quran is true.
The first chapter begins by stating, it is by the name of God that all praise belongs to God.
Imam Ali is quoted to have said: Praise be to Allah who made praise the Key for His remembrance, a means for increase of His bounty and a guide/proof for His Bounties and Greatness.
Now praise is in fact light from God, and God is the light of the light.
Imam Jaffar is quoted to have said:
Following the example of another is nothing more than what has been bestowed upon the spirit at its origin, when the light of time was mixed with that of eternity.
As eternity is mixed in temporal light, the light is both temporal and eternal. It's mix and relationship to the eternal reality, reveals it's eternal nature.
The praise in ourselves and the knowledge of praise in ourselves is of the signs of God. As our knowledge of it knows of the horizons which is endless ranks of ascension in praise, we know that the source of it is absolute in praise.
Now that praise in us contains all the divine Names, and the divine names of God have filled the foundation of all things. "by your names that have filled the foundation of all things" - Du'a Kumail.
The reason is because the praise praises qualities and virtues and names of actions and we know there is eternalness to such praise, by virtue of it being mixed.
The other issue aside from the eternalness, is the living essence of morality and praise and greatness. These are not as imagined by atheists to be some sort of concept that we apply to ourselves, but rather it's a living reality, and the source of morality is a living essence, and goodness is not simply a concept we go by, but a living reality, a force, a power.
This sign can be seen within us and upon the horizons, that we are attached to praise, goodness, and greatness, but that it's due to it being a living reality, and not simply a concept.
The nature of blessings we have, are such that they descend from the sky of God and upon God's earth everything grows, and so we can see the nature of blessings have there origin in the ultimate blessed eternal highest reality.
The one who takes the souls to account and makes us inherit praise from praiseworthy actions and condemnation from condemned actions, is manifest as well, through the nature that everyone attaches value to people by their actions and believes their value changes.
The system of reward to the soul and disgrace to the soul, honor and disgrace by actions, is well known and manifest to us all, because we are all connected to that knowledge of the unseen by seeing it in ourselves. But this only makes sense with a Lord who knows the value of each soul and makes it inherit it's actions.
(March 27, 2015 at 4:48 am)jesus_wept Wrote: Do you not see that Allah has subjected to you whatever is on the earth and the ships which run through the sea by His command? And He restrains the sky from falling upon the earth, unless by His permission. Indeed Allah , to the people, is Kind and Merciful.
The Quran wasn't written by the creator of the universe, it was written by a moron who didn't have a clue how the universe worked.
The Quran says it has given from all type of parables. Notice it says "except by his permission". This means sometimes Allah allows the sky to fall upon the earth. But what is meant by sky is not the physical sky, and what is meant by earth is not the physical earth.
I suggest you look at other verses that use sky and earth, and you will see it talks about it as spiritual realities in which the soul has a relationship to.
For example it states if whether Mohammad can bring an opening to the earth or a ladder to the sky to bring a sign to them, in which he does for believers but cannot do for the unjust, as they are veiled, and it would harm them if he did so in their state.
Other verses say if God opened them doors to the heavens they would be unjust in their ascension.
So God holds the sky from descending upon the earth except by his permission.
And in Du'a Nudba it said "Where is the link between the sky and the earth"
Sky refers to a higher reality.
And there is other verses people often take literally too which are parables like when the Quran says the sky and the earth was one, it's not talking about big bang, as can't expect people to know that by saying "do they not see that...", but rather it's talking about a spiritual reality that can be witnessed by knowing we come from God and return to God.
Likewise when it says we brought down water from the sky to repel the uncleanness of the devil on believers on a certain day, it's not talking about physical sky or physical water.
And the same is true when it says his throne was upon water. Or when it says he created everything from water.
And when he is talking about constantly expanding the sky, it's not talking about the physical universe, although it is true, but about a higher reality, because Quran is not concerned with bestowing scientific knowledge, if that was the goal of the Quran, then it didn't do very well. I don't blame you for this literal-ism because even Muslims do it.
There is other parables with day and night, sun and moon and stars, the hadiths talk about it. Even mountains in Quran are parables referring to his chosen ones in most places if not all but people want to make it about some scientific fact!
I also think when we read a book, we should read it charitably, not always assume the worse possible meaning and ignore any possible majestic meanings.
(March 27, 2015 at 4:29 am)robvalue Wrote: Did you notice how he says about a hundred times in the Quran how non believers will face a fiery doom?
I think it means disbelieving in guidance of God after it's become manifest to them. There is various verses stating those conditions, and the other verses that don't mention those conditions should be interpreted in light of that.
The Quran says God doesn't love disbelievers and unjust, but then tells us it didn't forbid love from those who didn't fight the believers. That showed mushrikeen were those who associated with knowledge, and after knowing the truth and hating it, prosecuted the believers. Those who didn't fight them, the Quran is showing they didn't get to the unjust state of shirk (associating with God) and kufr (disbelief) because they don't know better and God doesn't forbid love from these people. However he specifically forbade love from those who God's wrath is upon showing that believers were not to consider those who didn't fight them as people who were disbelievers and mushrikeen or that they were unjust.
And there is verses that talk about God rewarding those who do good from humanity and that hell is only for the most wicked.
The truth is if you are following and believing in the moral guidance that has come to you, and you are following what you know, than you are a believer per Quran.
You are only a disbeliever when proof has come to you otherwise, you deeply inwardly know the truth, yet you hate God's pleasure and follow the falsehood. This is when you become a follower of falsehood, hating God's pleasure, and deserving God's wrath.
And the last verse of Suratal Fatiha distinguishes from those who God's wrath is upon and all astray, showing God's wrath is not upon all astray people.
Plus the Quran talked about people who have no way to belief in the religion and as well talked about those who's hearts are inclined (but are not believers), and it mentioned them with forgiveness.
I know it is off-topic, but are you fluent in Arabic at all? If so, shouldn't you use the name "Allah", instead of "God"? We know that muslims call their God "Allah," but at the same time, Christian Arabs also refer to "God", as "Allah." Your thoughts?
March 27, 2015 at 6:05 pm (This post was last modified: March 27, 2015 at 6:08 pm by jesus_wept.)
(March 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(March 27, 2015 at 4:48 am)jesus_wept Wrote: Do you not see that Allah has subjected to you whatever is on the earth and the ships which run through the sea by His command? And He restrains the sky from falling upon the earth, unless by His permission. Indeed Allah , to the people, is Kind and Merciful.
The Quran wasn't written by the creator of the universe, it was written by a moron who didn't have a clue how the universe worked.
The Quran says it has given from all type of parables. Notice it says "except by his permission". This means sometimes Allah allows the sky to fall upon the earth. But what is meant by sky is not the physical sky, and what is meant by earth is not the physical earth.
I suggest you look at other verses that use sky and earth, and you will see it talks about it as spiritual realities in which the soul has a relationship to.
For example it states if whether Mohammad can bring an opening to the earth or a ladder to the sky to bring a sign to them, in which he does for believers but cannot do for the unjust, as they are veiled, and it would harm them if he did so in their state.
Other verses say if God opened them doors to the heavens they would be unjust in their ascension.
So God holds the sky from descending upon the earth except by his permission.
And in Du'a Nudba it said "Where is the link between the sky and the earth"
Sky refers to a higher reality.
And there is other verses people often take literally too which are parables like when the Quran says the sky and the earth was one, it's not talking about big bang, as can't expect people to know that by saying "do they not see that...", but rather it's talking about a spiritual reality that can be witnessed by knowing we come from God and return to God.
Likewise when it says we brought down water from the sky to repel the uncleanness of the devil on believers on a certain day, it's not talking about physical sky or physical water.
And the same is true when it says his throne was upon water. Or when it says he created everything from water.
And when he is talking about constantly expanding the sky, it's not talking about the physical universe, although it is true, but about a higher reality, because Quran is not concerned with bestowing scientific knowledge, if that was the goal of the Quran, then it didn't do very well. I don't blame you for this literal-ism because even Muslims do it.
There is other parables with day and night, sun and moon and stars, the hadiths talk about it. Even mountains in Quran are parables referring to his chosen ones in most places if not all but people want to make it about some scientific fact!
I also think when we read a book, we should read it charitably, not always assume the worse possible meaning and ignore any possible majestic meanings.
You can use all the mental gymnastics you want, to try and convince yourself that the Quran isn't complete and utter nonsense, but, at the end of the day, this is basically the universe the Quran describes.
March 27, 2015 at 6:58 pm (This post was last modified: March 27, 2015 at 7:00 pm by Mudhammam.)
I think you might want to look up the definition of argument, Mystic, and title future threads that tread similar ground, "General assertions for Islam," to which I will just again, simply shake my head in pity at what you conceive to be the epitome of wisdom, beauty, and justice.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
I'm not convinced. Until the mysterious maker in the sky comes down to me, stands before me and speaks directly to me, my views will remain unchanged. I simply cannot subscribe to any religious book that was not written by any god, but written by man and directs people to accept that it is what it is and that's it. That kind of thinking is just dangerous.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
You want me to believe in your invisible friend? Easy! Just have it cause all the amputated limbs in the world to regrow instantly.
...it is common knowledge that the upper third, centered in Flagstaff, is Alta Arizona; the lower third, centered in Tucson, is Baja Arizona; and the middle third, centered in Phoenix, is Caca Arizona. Simple as ABC...
March 27, 2015 at 9:01 pm (This post was last modified: March 27, 2015 at 9:02 pm by JuliaL.)
(March 27, 2015 at 7:31 pm)Judi Lynn Wrote: I'm not convinced. Until the mysterious maker in the sky comes down to me, stands before me and speaks directly to me, my views will remain unchanged. I simply cannot subscribe to any religious book that was not written by any god, but written by man and directs people to accept that it is what it is and that's it. That kind of thinking is just dangerous.
I know that the revelatory episode you describe is far and away more convincing than any 1400 year old dictation. But why would you accept that evidence? I'm not a valid judge of what constitutes a true theophany and not some bad snails I had for dinner the previous evening.
Let's not even get started on you being scammed by a demon.
I'd say that seeing God on a golden chariot emerging from a cloudless sky is best explained (in order of descending likelihood) as:
1) delusion
2) illusion
3) Alex K trying out some of his more convincing physics tricks that we don't know about.
Until God gives me equal powers so that I can see He's not pulling yet another confidence trick, I'm not buying.
Though to be honest, you did say you'd be 'changing your view' and not swallowing hook, line and sinker.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat?
![[Image: Ancient%252520Cosmology2.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-tuFx4D9E4m0%2FTiWT3vvB8oI%2FAAAAAAAAAgw%2FzIl6Jp5xoSI%2Fs1600%2FAncient%25252520Cosmology2.jpg)
