General argument for Islam.

[Brian37]

The wisdom of Quran lies in the favor God bestows upon humanity through his chosen ones.  He made love of them the love of his obedience and inclination to Worshiping him sincerely and acknowledging his light, remembering the path towards him, and the praiseworthy station of his beautiful names.  He emphasized on their path of struggle in God's way, commanding towards good and forbidding the evil, and that they are those given the knowledge standing up for justice. He linked recognizing their path with recognizing his path, obedience to them to his obedience, and love of them to love of his face and beautiful names. He made them doors to his knowledge and unseen wisdom and truth.


Say: No wage do I ask for it except the love of (my) near relatives.
Verily God chose Adam and Nuh and the family of Ibrahim and the family of Imran above the worlds.
Say: No wage do I ask for it except that who wants to, to take a path to his Lord.
Say: Whatever wage I asked of you it is for yourselves, verily my wage is with God.
These are they whom God guided therefore (Mohammad) follow their guidance. Say: No wage do I ask for it that it is only a reminder/remembrance to the nations/worlds. 
Or do you ask them a wage, then verily the wage of your Lord is better and he is the best of those who provide sustenance. And verily you call them to a straight path.
And you do not ask them a wage for it except that it be a remembrance/reminder to the worlds.
God only desires to keep the uncleanness away from you O people of the household and purifies you a thorough purification.
How does he have authority over us when we have more right to authority and has not been given abundance in wealth, verily God has chosen him above you, and made him superior in knowledge and physique, and God gives his authority to whom he pleases, and God is encompassing with his grace, knowledgeable. 
Then we inherited the book to those whom we chosen of our servants
Obey God and obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from you
Therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know
Peace be upon the family of Yaseen
Say: If you love God, then follow me, God will love you and forgive your sins.
Or do the envy the people for what God has given them out of his grace? Then verily we gave the family of Ibrahim the book and the wisdom, and we gave them a great authority.
 And on the day we will call from every a people a witness from themselves
And on the day we will call every human with it's Imam
And we made them Imams who guide by our command
So guard (with regards to your duty to) God and obey me. Verily God is my god and your god so worship him, this is a straight path.
So follow me, verily this is a straight path.
Verily we believed in the Lord of the world. The Lord of Musa and Harun.
You two and those who follow you both will be the victorious
Peace be upon the servants that God has chosen
And from who we have a created are a people who guide by the truth and by it do justice

I do not need your book to do good or be good anymore than you think you need a bible or the OT. You also don't value the Vedas anymore than I do.

How about YOU consider that it is just YOU falling for pretty words in and old book.

You are stuck on pretty like most humans. 

[Mystic]

Rhythm, f you don't want to accept objective morality or God, that's fine, but I'm stating why I reasoned to the fact Islam is true. So while it won't convince you, it convinces me. To state that I should prove objective morality or that without it won't be a delusion, to me seems something I've discussed through out the years as a Deist.

As for objective morality being something exalted pure servants of God would be guided too, I think it's obvious given the purpose of objective morality is we know it and follow it. 

Perhaps it was a slip to say all pure servants would be guided, but the exalted ones, I think it makes sense they would be guided out of the pure ones. (There is higher ranks to those who become pure).

[Brian37]

Rhythm, f you don't want to accept objective morality or God, that's fine, but I'm stating why I reasoned to the fact Islam is true. So while it won't convince you, it convinces me. To state that I should prove objective morality or that without it won't be a delusion, to me seems something I've discussed through out the years as a Deist.

As for objective morality being something exalted pure servants of God would be guided too, I think it's obvious given the purpose of objective morality is we know it and follow it. 

Perhaps it was a slip to say all pure servants would be guided, but the exalted ones, I think it makes sense they would be guided out of the pure ones. (There is higher ranks to those who become pure).

See if you can spot the pattern.

"If you cannot accept the objective morality of Allah"
"If you cannot accept the objective morality of Jesus"
"If you cannot accept the objective morality of Yahweh"
"If you cannot accept the objective morality of Vishnu"

Don't care about your particular god claim. You'd like to think you have a special argument, but you dont. 

Someone sold you some pretty words and because of those pretty words you got stuck on Allah. So what, Christians and Jews and Hindus get stuck on their pretty words too.

[The Grand Nudger]

Rhythm, f you don't want to accept objective morality or God, that's fine, but I'm stating why I reasoned to the fact Islam is true. So while it won't convince you, it convinces me. To state that I should prove objective morality or that without it won't be a delusion, to me seems something I've discussed through out the years as a Deist.

As for objective morality being something exalted pure servants of God would be guided too, I think it's obvious given the purpose of objective morality is we know it and follow it. 

Perhaps it was a slip to say all pure servants would be guided, but the exalted ones, I think it makes sense they would be guided out of the pure ones. (There is higher ranks to those who become pure).

You've given me no reason to while claiming to possess reason to.............that's about as bad as it gets. This is the black spot at the bottom of the pit..there's only one way to go from here, up. This has nothing to do with what I do or don't want.......you are failing to do what you insist you are doing. Understand? It's not my problem, it's not Bobs problem. It's your problem - and you're never going to be able to overcome it if your every reaction to that is to point at a perceived difficiency in another. Your argument is unconvincing to me not because of anything I want with regards to a god - but because you have failed to present a compelling or reasonable argument - regardless of how convinced -you may be-.

End of.

I fail to see how you've used any of that to establish that Islam is true and it is far...far below the threshold for any reasonable person to consider it a fact, you've given me no explanation.  You keep making declarations of faith and then saying "obviously, if I believe this then I believe that" - the "obviously" needs to take up more than one word's space in the conversation...I think. The thing that tickles me pink is that islam and god is justtached to all this...you;re not really considering islam or god. You think this or that thing about praise or wisdom..and on the basis of that you extrapolate to points unknown. But if praise didn't have anything to do with god...you'd still be extrapolating on praise, and in the same manner.

-As you did when you were a deist-

Are there different armbands for this ranking system.  Do we get to wear badges?  What if someone is sort of in the middle but they've been hanging there along time and you don't want to cut them loose....can we make an unofficial middle rank?  Or maybe can we do a split at baby chevrons and sham shields?  You understand how silly this all sounds to me...yeah?

[RobertE]

@Mystic Knight, I have one question for you. Now, we know that in Islamic countries, there are many people who have died due to being stoned to death, mostly women of course. Now, we know that stoning exists in the Old Testament and possibly the New Testament, but it isn't mentioned ever in the Qu'ran. Now, it seems to me that Islam was created because of the barbaric practice of stoning. So, why do Islamic countries use this old Jewish death penalty?

[Mystic]

@Mystic Knight, I have one question for you. Now, we know that in Islamic countries, there are many people who have died due to being stoned to death, mostly women of course. Now, we know that stoning exists in the Old Testament and possibly the New Testament, but it isn't mentioned ever in the Qu'ran. Now, it seems to me that Islam was created because of the barbaric practice of stoning. So, why do Islamic countries use this old Jewish death penalty?

I think in the same way revelations in the past were distorted,  Islam became distorted despite clear verses of Quran. Take for example the case of stoning. Suratal Noor is in context of a married woman (Aisha the wife of the Prophet) getting accused of adultery and this was a response to that.  And it mentions wife and husband too in another verse. Yet they take it as simply about non-married zina, in other words just fornication. 

Now mind you the penalty in Islam if you get caught in public by four witnesses is harsh, but only if it's four witnesses, and they have no right to go into people's houses to spy on them, and they would not be deemed trustworthy if they did. 

It's a harsh punishment to get lashed but this no where near stoning and death. The Quran said even the children of Israel were told they can only kill for two reasons, murder and people doing mischief in the land (I would say the latter can be interpreted to include rape since it disturbs the peace and causes an unsafe environment). 

This is the nature of evil among humanity, they distort what is revealed and follow fabrications. In the case of Islam, it's even worse, because you are going against explicit verses of Quran.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, the rest of them have it wrong, totally distorted, and you have it right...and you can surely demonstrate that this is so....eh? Or is this yet another declaration of your faith? Who gives a shit how many people can "witness" to my "fornication" - does the number of butthurt moral busybodies involved somehow make it okay that there is a punishment at all, let alone a harsh one? Meh.

[Brakeman]

Islam became distorted despite clear verses of Quran.

So tell me, where can I find a winged horse like Mo-Fo rode around on? I'd really like to see one of those! The Quran clearly says those are a thing right? I'd love to see the special wing muscles on a horse that could carry both his own unbalanced weight and a man's. The wings would have to be pumping live a wild steam engine.

Do they raise these flying horses in Dumbfuckistan?

[The Grand Nudger]

Imagine the plow that a horse could pull with that kind of oomph in it's shoulders.......I could toss my pto in the junkyard where it belongs!  But we're being unkind..I suppose....this is exalted wisdom, after all..............the flying horse was a super elite servant of god (everybody check your hit/crit right now or I'm dropping you from the raid group).

[Mystic]

The Buraq is found in hadiths, and it's nature is unknown - I never came across any stating it is a horse with wings. Also, I believe it is a metaphysical thing, as stated in Du'a Nudba, it states God ascended his spirit to the heavens...I think there are spiritual realms, and the access to them is not simply a matter of physical distance, but there is a spiritual reality to them.

I was always the opinion that the Buraq is a metaphysical reality of the desire of Mohammad. It takes him to the higher places of proximity to God.