Pediatrician Refuses Treatment of Baby of Lesbian Parents

[abaris]

This would be grounds to be struck off the medical register in the UK, so I'm surprised it's not the same in the US.

Because they reduced healthcare to a commodity like buying groceries. I don't know of any European country where a doctor would get away with that without facing serious consequences.

[Crossless2.0]

This would be grounds to be struck off the medical register in the UK, so I'm surprised it's not the same in the US.

Because they reduced healthcare to a commodity like buying groceries. I don't know of any European country where a doctor would get away with that without facing serious consequences.

Yep, in America everything is for sale -- including your health -- if you can afford it.  Of course, those who can afford the politicians set the conditions in which public goods become commodities, and the working class all too often abets them by voting against their own interests in the name of 'freedom' or anti-socialism or whatever.  We're an easily distracted and manipulated people.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

How sad.

[Heywood]

Heywood: OK! So we can fire people if they don't do their job because of religious objection then. That seems entirely opposite to what you've been saying up until now, so I don't know what you've been complaining about.

At the start of this thread you were defending this woman, not saying she should be fired. You said she should have the right to "be an asshole". Or did you mean she has that right, but we should fire here none the less? All you are saying in that case is that we can't physically force her to do something. Which really didn't seem like your point, and has nothing to do with religion.

Have you changed your opinion then? It would be great if you have!

Are you actually suggesting that we wanted her to be physically forced to see the patient, like we grab her, put her in the room and threaten her until she does it? Is that what you think our position is? If that is what you think, it would explain the talking at cross purposes. I doubt anyone here is suggesting she be physically forced to do something by threats.

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I feel like I'm losing my mind this morning. Have I lost it?

No Rob, you cannot fire this doctor. The employer can fire this doctor.  You wanting to fire this doctor is another manifestation of you wanting to control someone else.  You want this doctor to treat this child.  If the doctor doesn't treat this child, you want to clinic to fire her.  I want everyone, the doctor, the clinic owner, and the patient to have the right of self determination.  I see no evidence of some huge societal mess that needs to be corrected by curtailing people's right to self determination.

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Do you have any evidence to show that African Americans were dying cause doctors would not see them because they were black?

Apparently I was giving you too much credit for optimism when ignorance (and a broken Google finger, apparently) was the actual explanation. 

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If you do, how do you know it was because they were black and not because they were poor and couldn't pay?

 Already preparing your defense of letting black people die, I see. Of course, such behavior is perfectly understandable if they committed the double sin of being poor in addition to being black, eh?  

The problem with google is you and I can search the exact same phrase and get different results.   I did search google and didn't find anything to suggest that blacks were being denied health care because they are black.  I read one story of a black doctor who got into an accident and the emergency room wouldn't treat him because he was black but it turned out that story was false.  If your claim is so trivially easy to support as you suggest, how about you do something novel and just post a link?  Is that too hard for you?

[Iroscato]

Yes, we should.  If you have medicare or tricare, you have insurance, you are covered, your money is the same as any other, and if you can't get any doctors to see you because of your form of coverage, your health problems can get worse and worse, to the point of becoming life threatening.  There's more than a few horror stories about veterans under Tricare who've died trying to find medical assistance because doctors kept refusing to see them.  This isn't a matter of people being butthurt and controlling behavior; this is a matter of people needing to get medical assistance being denied because of who or what they are.  If this was a discussion about whether or not it should be illegal for a doctor to refuse to treat someone because they're black or a female...it wouldn't even be a discussion!  We'd all be like "yeah that shouldn't be allowed."  Why?  Because the fucking civil liberties act!  This is the same fucking thing!

This isn't a matter of hurting someone's feelings, this is a matter of protecting people from discrimination.  If you don't see what the difference is, I will be glad to go into grand detail explaining what the difference is.

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Man, I'm white and even I don't understand white people.  To anyone who isn't white, we've gotta seem like the most dysfunctional whackjobs on the planet.

The reason you have a hard problem getting care under Tricare is because the re-reimbursement rates are so low and the government caps the amount of you can bill above that rate. 

So what happens.  Instead of providers seeing you and balance billing.....meaning they charge you the difference between what tricare pays and what they bill......they simply refuse to see you at all.  The result....if you have Tricare (a government program) for some specialities you would be better off not having any coverage at all.   Cause if didn't have coverage, the doctor would see you if he or she thought there was a reasonable chance you would pay them.  Having tricare, the doctor  knows you the most they can collect by law isn't enough for them to bother even seeing you.

Government laws and regulations are full of unintended consequences.  Let people be free and you will find that most act optimally.  It is very rare that you find yourself in a situation where the crowd behaves so wrongly that government intervention is warranted.  However the progressotards.....like Esquilax....will invent problems to justify controlling you.  Because in the end that is their goal...They don't give a rats ass about you....they only care about controlling you.

Insuring you have self determination is the only check against people like him.

Damn, how do you people function without an NHS? Say what you like about the UK's healthcare system, at least people can save your life without the triple chocolate gateaux of bullshit that comes with the US system.

[Heywood]

I am okay with doctors getting punished for committing fraud or violating the terms of their employment.  What part about that is difficult for you to understand?  Are you really this dense?

I understand your arbitrary, self serving rationale, I just think it's weak, like everything else you say. You're fine with doctors being punished for the event in question, just so long as the clinic doesn't hurt your pride by punishing them for stated reasons you might find offensive. It's pathetic.

However the progressotards.....like Esquilax....will invent problems to justify controlling you.  Because in the end that is their goal...They don't give a rats ass about you....they only care about controlling you.

Reported. Don't say I didn't warn you, you dishonest fuck.

No you do not understand.  I don't have a problem with the clinic firing the doctor for any reason.  They could fire her because she is Christian for all I care.  I have a problem when the state does it.  I have a problem when the state comes in and says, "you must behave this way" for no good reason. 

[Creed of Heresy]

There's nothing more amusing to me than when I grind someone's stance into oblivion and they tralalalalala it because they're too afraid to acknowledge they're wrong. :>

How about you guys?

[Desert Diva]

Let's play a game, and figure out which type/s of Libertarian Heywood is....

[Mister Agenda]

Heywood: OK! So we can fire people if they don't do their job because of religious objection then. That seems entirely opposite to what you've been saying up until now, so I don't know what you've been complaining about.

At the start of this thread you were defending this woman, not saying she should be fired. You said she should have the right to "be an asshole". Or did you mean she has that right, but we should fire here none the less? All you are saying in that case is that we can't physically force her to do something. Which really didn't seem like your point, and has nothing to do with religion.

Have you changed your opinion then? It would be great if you have!

Are you actually suggesting that we wanted her to be physically forced to see the patient, like we grab her, put her in the room and threaten her until she does it? Is that what you think our position is? If that is what you think, it would explain the talking at cross purposes. I doubt anyone here is suggesting she be physically forced to do something by threats.

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I feel like I'm losing my mind this morning. Have I lost it?

No Rob, you cannot fire this doctor. The employer can fire this doctor.  You wanting to fire this doctor is another manifestation of you wanting to control someone else.

Speaking of being a control freak, how far gone do you have to be to try to control the opinion someone else expresses in the name of not trying to control someone else while demonstrating no awareness at all that you are trying to exercise control over them?

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 You want this doctor to treat this child.  If the doctor doesn't treat this child, you want to clinic to fire her.  I want everyone, the doctor, the clinic owner, and the patient to have the right of self determination.  I see no evidence of some huge societal mess that needs to be corrected by curtailing people's right to self determination.

But what you don't want is for people on a forum you belong to, to talk about wishing someone would be fired. And you sure speak up about that, don't you? Why can't you leave us alone to pursue our own self-determination?

[Heywood]

There's nothing more amusing to me than when I grind someone's stance into oblivion and they tralalalalala it because they're too afraid to acknowledge they're wrong.  :>

How about you guys?

I didn't read the wall of text that was your last post.  Its not a fault with you....its a fault with me.  I just don't have the patience/attention span to parse a lot of text.  I wish I did.  

If you ever want to get my attention or make a strong point with me, keep your posts short and to the point and I am much more likely to read it.