Biblical Prayer Contradictions

[Godscreated]

I do not do anything with the Koran, I'm not interest in it, it holds no value for me.

GC

And that's exactly how I feel about the bible.

That's your choice, just as the Koran isn't my choice. However you do not see me spending an enormous amount of time trying to run it in the ground, I usually only speak against it when asked or the subject comes up and that is not often. I would rather spend my time studying what I know to be true and I know it's true through God's revelation to me. I do not run down your unbelief in my God, I do defend what I believe and know to be the truth when it is attacked.

GC

[Salacious B. Crumb]

And that's exactly how I feel about the bible.

That's your choice, just as the Koran isn't my choice. However you do not see me spending an enormous amount of time trying to run it in the ground, I usually only speak against it when asked or the subject comes up and that is not often. I would rather spend my time studying what I know to be true and I know it's true through God's revelation to me. I do not run down your unbelief in my God, I do defend what I believe and know to be the truth when it is attacked.

GC

You don't run the koran into the ground, because you would be a hypocrite, knowing that there are bad things in the koran, as there are bad things in the bible. What you 'know' to be true, isn't actually knowing, it's a belief a system. Muslims claim to 'know' that the koran is true too, evidently, both of us would disagree with that. Probably, because we weren't raised in that faith, and one of us is in a different faith, so of course you're not going to believe it. There have been thousands and thousands of religions on this earth, because... they are made up by human beings! God's will, wouldn't have tons of religions before the 'true one', and then have this so-called true religion, established 2,000 years ago, and then have more religions that follow christianity. So many of these religions were made up in a time of great ignorance; people were exceedingly superstitious, even more so than today. They were willing to make up and believe anything, they barely knew anything about science, and that is apparent, because the Adam and Eve story contradicts evolution. Humans didn't pop into existence a few thousand years ago, there's extensive evidence that we've evolved over time. If they knew this, they'd probably not write it down. However, they didn't know this, because this is a relatively recent discovery, compared to how long this species has been on earth.

And, spending your time studying on what you 'know' is true, isn't smart. It's good to actually study other religions, why they believe them, and how these other religions plagiarized material from other religions. It's also good to study science, and take an interest in factual information. That's the problem with people that are religious, they're close-minded, because they 'know' this book to be true, and ignore everything else. They can't look at their religion objectively, they only know how to defend it.

[Godscreated]

There's no reason to doubt what I know, I've heard from God and John 10:1-5 reveals I'll know it's Him.

GC

How do you know what you know GC?
more auditory hallucinations?

This the best you got in you, it's beginning to border on childish.

Sigh. Imma wait forever for an honest answer

 I've been honest, it's not my fault you want believe me, I've supplied you with many answers, you've yet to defend one single claim you've made to me, so why should I believe anything you say, honestly Neimenovic.

The truth is, GC, you have no way of knowing. You can't know anything about god. You can believe a ton of stuff, but you don't know shit. And neither did the sleazebags who wrote the damn thing. They pulled it all out of their asses. Made it right up as they went. That's all faith is. Not knowing and making up an answer.

You need to prove this claim, if you do not try our conversations over period, I'm tired of your unsupported claims. I'm tired of answering your tripe and you ignoring my question, you're using an atheist approach to denying the scriptures. Making all kinds of claims with nothing to back them up, no proof the claims you make are true and, the worse running around the net using the claims of others instead of reading and studying the scriptures for yourself. You're not even stating something you believe when you do that, you're just parroting what someone else says and you have no idea if what they say has a speck of truth to it. That's really a child's approach to this and I do not believe you are a child.

You're making shit up, too. You may believe what you're saying, but you don't know it to be true. Wouldn't life be so much easier if you simply owned up to that?

 You're the one who hasn't given us proof of your claims, you make them then claim them to be true and my explanation to be wrong, where is the logical reasoning in what your doing, the logical reasoning atheist claim that makes them superior.

What's the answer gonna be? Complaining about my language, more arguments from personal experience and more bible quotes, complete with a bare assertion about the nature of god. Yawn.

 

Bad language is not necessary for an intelligent conversation, is it. Personal experience is used in many arguments in different fields. In actuality, personal experience can convict a person and put them on death row without any other witness except the one giving personal testimony to the crime. With personal experience through testimony having that kind of power, then why shouldn't it be considered relevant for a Christian giving testimony. You're the one who has brought the Bible verses claiming contradiction, you did it without proof and never supplied proof of your claim after I explained there wasn't a contradiction in the verses you supplied. I'm not sure I ever used an assertion about the nature of God outside He is absolute truth. If you do not intend to back up your claims why are we having this discussion, so you can claim you know more about the Bible than I do, without any proof I might add.

GC

[Godscreated]

That's your choice, just as the Koran isn't my choice. However you do not see me spending an enormous amount of time trying to run it in the ground, I usually only speak against it when asked or the subject comes up and that is not often. I would rather spend my time studying what I know to be true and I know it's true through God's revelation to me. I do not run down your unbelief in my God, I do defend what I believe and know to be the truth when it is attacked.

GC

You don't run the koran into the ground, because you would be a hypocrite, knowing that there are bad things in the koran, as there are bad things in the bible.

Why would it make me a hypocrite and,  and because as you say I'm not a hypocrite in this matter isn't that a good thing. The Koran does have bad things in it, what all they are I do not know. The Bible records many bad things, why, because they happened, of many we have proof. Just because bad things are recorded in the Bible doesn't make it a bad book, nor does it make it a useless book. It does however make it a book worthy of study to see how man went wrong in the past and brought promised wrath from God because man would not listen.

What you 'know' to be true, isn't actually knowing, it's a belief a system.

Care to prove this claim, I'll be interest to see the proof you have against my knowing. In the NT the scriptures teach that we can know, it does this more than once, how many times, I am not sure, what I'm sure of is it does teach we can know, it's taught by Jesus and Paul.

Muslims claim to 'know' that the koran is true too, evidently, both of us would disagree with that. Probably, because we weren't raised in that faith, and one of us is in a different faith, so of course you're not going to believe it.

 Yes they do, and yes I disagree with them because God has revealed to many Christians the Bible is the only truth from Him to mankind. The Bible doesn't claim to be a history book, nor a book of science, it actually defies some of the science; science holds to be absolute truth. The Bible does claim to be a book about God and the relationship man can have with Him. We call this a spiritual book. It does make the claim to be a book of absolute truth inspired by God, written by man, with the guidance from the Holy Spirit. We call this a book to be taken seriously. The Bible claims to be a book of spiritual teaching, teachings that will better a mans life above what he believes he can accomplish on his own, I'm a living example of this. We call this a book to live by. I'm sure you have problems with what you just read, that I wrote, that's your choice and it's my choice to love what the Bible teaches me for my relationship with Christ. 

There have been thousands and thousands of religions on this earth, because... they are made up by human beings!

On this we agree, actually only one religion is true out of the thousands. It's established by God for man and taught through the OT and NT. The Christian faith was the purpose of both books, they both testify to this from Genesis to Revelations.

God's will, wouldn't have tons of religions before the 'true one', and then have this so-called true religion, established 2,000 years ago, and then have more religions that follow christianity.

You're right, God want have any religion before Christianity, this is made quite clear in the OT over and over. Many unbelievers have a problem with the OT being as great a part of Christianity as the NT, but I tell you they are on equal ground. Until the books of the Gospel and the letters of Paul, Jesus brother James and some of the other apostles, the OT was what was used to teach Christianity to the people, there was no NT. As for other religions like Islam and many new age religions popping up after Christianity, that's what people want and God want deny them what they want, He will deny them entrance into the eternal heaven.

So many of these religions were made up in a time of great ignorance; people were exceedingly superstitious, even more so than today. They were willing to make up and believe anything, they barely knew anything about science, and that is apparent, because the Adam and Eve story contradicts evolution.

All those other religions were made up because of superstition, you nor any one else stated this before the Bible did, the OT and NT are full of such recorded statements. You are giving some very old facts that all Christians know. The world is full of superstitious people, even atheist on some level are superstitious about some things. Example the wearing of rally hats in hope of changing the out come of a sporting event, even we Christians fall into this silly action. They probably want admit it but I would wager many atheist  will go around a ladder instead of just walking under it, that funny feeling jumps up in the gut and around they go. All the other religions outside of the Bible based two, are superstitious. So, yeah there are as many if not more superstitious people today than in ages past, maybe not to the same degree because science has put to rest many of the superstitions, but even in spite of it people still walk around a ladder because they are in some way afraid of bad luck. I'm not saying it's the smartest thing to walk under a ladder, but I'm not and haven't changed my path because of some silly superstition.
As for evolution, and this is the last I'll discuss it on this thread, there is no proof, none. What's dead and gone can't be used, only speculated upon. No one alive now or the recent past was alive to testify to anything changing from one thing into a different thing. Taking and using the small changes in different species, such as color, beak size, body size and any other small change has never been proven to be evolution, it's nothing more than an animal adapting to it's environment. No proof of added DNA in the natural world has been shown and especially to the extent of one animal becoming a different one. Even added DNA in the lab, which by the way is controlled by a higher intelligence (man), has only change what a, for example, bacterium will consume, it is still a bacterium. 

Humans didn't pop into existence a few thousand years ago, there's extensive evidence that we've evolved over time. If they knew this, they'd probably not write it down. However, they didn't know this, because this is a relatively recent discovery, compared to how long this species has been on earth.

 
Really, they didn't! There is no evolutionary evidence saying that man came from anything other than God. There are plenty of books written that make that claim but, not one has proof that this is true. Like I said before no one today was around to confirm the so called evidence you say science has about man's origin. On the other hand, the God that created man was there and He saw to it that the event was recorded, not as a scientific explanation because even today we could not understand how He accomplished this. Heck we can't even imagine it with all the knowledge we have today, so if we can't even make an intelligent guess, how is it that anyone could expect us to understand God's explanation and it would have been even more difficult for an ancient people who had very little science. So there wasn't a need to explain something no one can understand.  Evolutionary science claims it took millions to billions of years to form coal, have you look at the new things coming about this, there is new thinking from extensive study that coal can form in only a few hundred years, there is growing amounts of data that shows there was enough animal and vegetation from a totally flooded world to provide for the amount of coal we have.

And, spending your time studying on what you 'know' is true, isn't smart. It's good to actually study other religions, why they believe them, and how these other religions plagiarized material from other religions. It's also good to study science, and take an interest in factual information. That's the problem with people that are religious, they're close-minded, because they 'know' this book to be true, and ignore everything else. They can't look at their religion objectively, they only know how to defend it.

This is a very old and tiring statement by unbelievers, yes there are some Christians who lead a blind life and it's probably because they are ill educated or believe whatever they are told and why do they do that, because they do not study the Bible, they rely on a preach to teach them. The God who inspired the Bible said not to rely on man alone but, to lean on Him and the scriptures we have been given, so it's very important Christians study the Bible an ask God for answers, but for some I guess it's easier just to follow a man and hope he's right. The Bible teaches us this is wrong on many accounts. This is the very reason we have Christians spouting out false things about the scriptures and God, I find it very irritating and damaging to what Christianity was always meant to be. No Christian has all the right answers and if one ever claims to do not believe them, we're just men, not God who's understanding surpasses all of mans knowledge on every level.
What's the use in studying other religions, they are all based on superstition, you admitted to this earlier, they are useless in the greater scheme of God's plan for mankind, they are there only to misdirect people, I want go into this bit now it can be a very long subject, so long we would have to start at the book of Genesis and follow through till today.
Now for science I have good friends who believe in the literal 6 day creation, some are very highly regarded in their fields, such as nuclear engineers, college professors and learned in many sciences. Some of them command huge salaries because of their knowledge and some travel to many places to teach. I've had the opportunity to study with them some and to learn from them. They can discuss things that go way over my head, but for the sake of teaching they will bring it down to the layman's level. Also, I love science and the many things that have come from it for the good of mankind, yet I see moneys spent in the name of science that only effect the few and will never effect more than those few, they could have been much more effectively spent on sciences that benefited millions and possibly billions of people. Millions have been saved because of good science, yet millions have died because of science that will only benefit the few, what ashame, what a waste of time, knowledge and human life, all because some gifted men were selfish enough to think of their own selfish needs.
Last thing tonight and maybe the weekend, only the objective can seriously defend Christianity, it takes great devotion and study of the Bible in a growing relationship with God to do so. Christians will never glean everything from the Bible, it is a life long endeavor to grow in a relationship with God through learning who He is and develop a strong faith that He will do all He says He will. We can come to know many things about God and what He has done for mankind, but faith plays a very important roll in Christians lives, it will and does lead to more belief and knowing of and about God. Becoming a Christian is a simple thing of faith, to live a successful life in a growing relationship with Christ takes one a life time of true commitment. Hope you didn't get bored and will at least consider some of what was stated here.

GC

[Godscreated]

You would, if you were born in Afghanistan, but, of course, you were born into the correct faith. Lucky you.

I've made that suggestion to christians many times but they usually insist that they would have found 'the truth' regardless of birthplace and then cite instances of christians in majority muslim countries. Let's see what GCs response is.

Yes very fortunate to be born in the U.S., but you know that doesn't necessarily guarantee a person will come to Christ. I grew up in a Christian home, but I was older and away from home when I finial became a Christian. I was never pushed into faith by my parents or anyone else, I found it through testimony of others and study of scriptures. Those who insist they could have been born in a Muslim country and found Christ anyway are predestinationist (Calvin mostly). There are many who leave the Islamic faith and come to Christ through saving grace within Muslim countries. Those who actually study the Koran and, I do not mean read it everyday or memorize it, I mean study it will find that it doesn't contain absolute truth of or about God, so what they do with this discovery is up to them, some convert to Christianity at risk of life, others probably do not investigate the Bible and find that their life as an Islamist is actually against God and they stay put. Mostly out of fear of losing this life I would imagine, because they didn't discover what the Bible teaches, through Christ giving up this life means to gain eternal life and I'm not referring to only the physical life either. A life change occurs when giving up ones life to Christ and will be most apparent and that could very well cost them their physical life because of where they live.

Now as for me I do not deal with what ifs, I was born here and as I said I'm very fortunate, outside of this there is nothing to be gained by dealing with the what if I was born some other place.  That's for insecure people to do, for me I'm secure in the knowledge I was born in a great country and totally blessed because of it and, I should take full advantage of my good fortune and help those here that are in need of what God has bestowed upon my life. I wasn't called into the foreign mission field, I was hoping to at some level, but God made it very apparent that wasn't His plan for my life and yes I was disappointed because I thought that would be best for me. Well come to find out the best for me was in this country, where I was needed by those God put into my life, took me awhile to see it, God did make this very apparent also.

GC

[Salacious B. Crumb]

Why would it make me a hypocrite and,  and because as you say I'm not a hypocrite in this matter isn't that a good thing. The Koran does have bad things in it, what all they are I do not know. The Bible records many bad things, why, because they happened, of many we have proof.

You, by spending time running the koran into the ground with smears of the bad things contained it, would make you a hypocrite because there are many bad things in the bible as well, so that’s why you shouldn’t smear it. Say, if you attacked the koran for calling for the death of non-believers evil, but ignored the fact in the bible, that your moral god tells you that you can beat your slaves, to me, that’s hypocritical. You’re ignoring the bad parts in your book, and attacking the bad parts in the koran. I’m not accusing you, I’m giving you an example.

Care to prove this claim, I'll be interest to see the proof you have against my knowing. In the NT the scriptures teach that we can know, it does this more than once, how many times, I am not sure, what I'm sure of is it does teach we can know, it's taught by Jesus and Paul.

Yeah, why not, it’s quite easy, actually. We can’t prove many of the stories in the bible, they are just that, stories. So, what you claim to know about these stories to be true, the burden of proof is on you to prove that they’re true, until then they’re just wild, outlandish beliefs. I’ll be interested to hear the proof of all these insane stories in the bible, and how you have proved them to be true.

As I’ve said, the bible, the koran, the vedas, etc. are just books that contain stories written by man, and they haven’t been proven true. I don’t know how you’re going to prove to me that Adam and Eve were the first humans, or how you’re going to prove that Jonah had a sleepover in a whale, or how you’re going to prove that jesus is the son of god, but I’m listening.

because God has revealed to many Christians the Bible is the only truth from Him to mankind.

Proof? ..or I’ll settle for decent evidence. And why many christians? Why not everyone? Does god want people to burn in hell, is that why he doesn't reveal the 'truth' to everyone?

The Bible does claim to be a book about God and the relationship man can have with Him. We call this a spiritual book. It does make the claim to be a book of absolute truth inspired by God, written by man, with the guidance from the Holy Spirit. We call this a book to be taken seriously. The Bible claims to be a book of spiritual teaching, teachings that will better a mans life above what he believes he can accomplish on his own, I'm a living example of this.

I would agree, they are claims, and that’s it. I don’t understand how people can believe them. Practically everyone claims to have this relationship with their own version of god, but I don’t believe them. I believe that they actually think this, but I think they’re having a relationship with a character in their own mind, since this god doesn’t want to appear to everyone, just a few people, ..and we’re supposed to believe these claims? Smart people shouldn’t be this gullible.

On this we agree, actually only one religion is true out of the thousands. It's established by God for man and taught through the OT and NT.

Again, Proof?? Any strong evidence to suggest there is something to these stories, besides them being written in a book, and the fact that you think you have a relationship with god? J.K. Rawlings says Harry Potter does magic, and I don’t believe it. Just because it’s written in a book or because it’s on a T.V. screen doesn’t make the story of him completely true. I could claim that he is my god, and I have a relationship with him, but would never say that I know this for sure.

—Evolution, I’m not even wasting my time. You can go on google, type in transitional fossils, and you have a plethora of evidence that you can look at. Real evidence, showing change over time. Not claims written in a book, with nothing real to show for the crazy ass claims. You can accept them or just be ignorant, that’s your choice. Don’t be dishonest and say there no transitions. You can actually look at skulls side by side and see transitional change. You admit, that there is small change that’s been observed, why not over millions of years, could such a large change happen within all these tiny changes from generation to generation? There are facts out there, if you choose to accept them.

—As for superstitions, I have none that I’m aware of, but will be happy to listen to people who know me, and I’d happily correct them. I use to avoid walking under ladders when I was religious, and then realized how ridiculous that was, because some goof made it up, just like the religion I was following. I realized how stupid it was, and I stopped believing in it. That’s what honest, open-minded people do, they see something wrong that they’re doing/believing, and they take steps to correct those issues.

What's the use in studying other religions, they are all based on superstition, you admitted to this earlier, they are useless in the greater scheme of God's plan for mankind

Yeah, I’m kind of curious why you’re still in your man-made superstition. I guess you still believe that it isn’t a superstition/religion, and that it’s true. Also, it’s not useless, because that was a step in my de-conversion. I saw similarities in previous religions regarding christianity. I saw that the immaculate conception was not an original story, I saw how many people were claiming to be savior and the son of god during the time of jesus and claiming to do miracles, I saw how raising someone from the dead wasn't an original story, I saw the water into wine and walking on water wasn’t an original story either, etc. I saw how christianity just adopted jewish tradition, and added things to it. I saw how the jewish faith copied things from sumerian myths. I saw how after christianity, that muslims adopted many of the stories from the old testament, and took jesus as a prophet, and tweaked the story a little bit and added to it, to make it their own islam faith. You can actually look at the evolution of religion over time too, and see how it slowly changes with new stories, information, or with modern morality. It helps to look at this with an open mind, or you’re just going to keep making arguments from ignorance over and over again.

[Longhorn]

What are my unsupported claims? That you can't know anything about god? Well, present the FACTS about him then, and I'll be proved wrong. Very simple, and easy to do with an omnieverything deity, no?

Personal experience? The Yorkshire Ripper was told by Jesus to kill women. That's his personal experience. It's exactly as valid as any other personal experience. is Jesus a murderous psychopath then?

[Salacious B. Crumb]

What are my unsupported claims? That you can't know anything about god? Well, present the FACTS about him then, and I'll be proved wrong. Very simple, and easy to do with an omnieverything deity, no?

Personal experience? The Yorkshire Ripper was told by Jesus to kill women. That's his personal experience. It's exactly as valid as any other personal experience. is Jesus a murderous psychopath then?

Yeah, and he tells me there is no proof for evolution, but somewhere there is proof that the bible is true, I'm curious to hear that answer too. lmfao.

There is an insane amount of evidence out there for evolution, he denies it. The bible--It's written in a fucking book, it must be true!! Fucking classic christians...they're something else, aren't they?

[robvalue]

The funny thing about evolution is that it makes no actual difference to me whether it is true or not. I have no vested interest, just curiosity.

If it was proved false tomorrow, what would that mean for atheism? Nothing. It would mean new information had been found, and science would adjust to form a new "best model". The foaming-at-the-mouth argument is that if evolution is wrong, then the only other answer is magic. No. I would simply not know what the best answer was for a time. It would be an exciting opportunity to research more myself to see what conclusion I might reach!

It's this ridiculous idea that evolution is a competitor (and the only such competitor) to religion that causes so many people to reject it I think. I doubt many atheists would ever suggest that the intention of evolutionary theory was to compete with religion. It's the paranoid ramblings of the guy caught with his hand in the cookie jar of fairy tales.

Don't ask for a competition religion. Stick to unfalsifiable garbage. Or else it may look a bit like this...

http://youtu.be/8erekhIHgjA

[The Grand Nudger]

In actuality, personal experience can convict a person and put them on death row without any other witness except the one giving personal testimony to the crime.

Hahahahahahaha, no, it can't.  You see, there actually has to have been a crime,for starters - not just some asshats accusation.  You're a fucking moron. This is the shit that you use to prop up your own faith? If it weren't so godamned funny it would be tragic.

"Well, Bill......Steve says you murdered somebody...so I guess that's that, off to the chair withya"