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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 8:42 am
(May 23, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Freedom4me Wrote: (May 23, 2015 at 12:39 pm)Iroscato Wrote: Freedom4me, do you believe in unicorns?
If you're asking me if I believe that unicorns actually do exist, my answer is no.
Why not? There are hundreds of stories about the Unicorn. Is that not proof enough?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
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Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 8:50 am
(May 23, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Freedom4me Wrote: Are you serious? Just so I understand what you're saying, is it your opinion that living things just know how make copies of themselves without any plan, purpose, or reason that directed or instructed them to do so?
Obviously this is true. Before the new life even has a body it demonstrably does know how to assemble itself. At this point it has no brain or mind and yet the know-how is obvious. The mother's body does not put the new creature together. In my mother's body my organism-to-be assembled itself according to plan inherent in my DNA. This is nothing to skip over lightly. It is amazing, miraculous if you like. But it is no indicator that a band of tiny brownies lives inside every woman waiting for the opportunity to read that DNA like a blue print and get to work. This is more miraculous than some god's sleight of hand trick. It is a mystery, perhaps the mystery.
[This will be where foolish theists will rush in and proclaim that their beliefs explain it all. Of course it won't explain why they believe that. The truth is probably that they can't tolerate a mystery so they'd prefer to give it the name god.]
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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 9:08 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2015 at 9:11 am by robvalue.)
That's the problem with "goddidit", it doesn't explain anything at all. It doesn't increase our understanding, it doesn't give us a process, we haven't learnt anything and we can never build on it. "This is so complex that I can't think of a way it could happen therefor God" is not a valid argument, it's giving up on trying to understand and seek real answers.
All it actually does is raise more questions. Where did this fucker come from? How is he doing this stuff? Why? What's he made of? Why is he constantly hiding?
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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 9:43 am
(May 24, 2015 at 7:28 am)robvalue Wrote: I wonder what exactly people think "science" gets out of proposing evolution if it was false? It's not like we all pay a Darwin tax. Is it really just the thought that science wants to piss off religion? What a dim, childish science that would be.
It seems as if most scientists of centuries past were not looking to overthrow established beliefs, either. Considering the grief that some of them got for challenging 'known truths' you have to wonder how much scientific progress was held back because of the pressure to conform. We hear of the few who held to their claims in the face of persecution, but we cannot know how many buried important finds or research in order to avoid a backlash. So instead of paying a Darwin tax, we may be paying a not-insignificant religious tax in the form of lost progress.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 9:58 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2015 at 10:00 am by robvalue.)
It's a good point. The truth got out, even while being dragged backwards all the way. If a scientist has a shred of honesty, they have to respect the findings and the evidence, regardless of how it impacts their personal beliefs. It's clear even now how religion is trying to ruin education, literally in the cases of people going around burning books and destroying libraries, and by sabotage through trying to get nonsense taught as "alternatives" in the science room. It would have been far easier to ignore the results, but thankfully some people had the backbone to respect the data.
It is quite incredible that science finally broke free of those shackles and the persecution of anyone daring to challenge the status quo, and scary to think how much time has been lost and knowledge possibly forgotten.
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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 10:18 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2015 at 10:27 am by comet.
Edit Reason: same ol' same' ol.
)
(May 23, 2015 at 10:58 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (May 23, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Freedom4me Wrote: Are you serious? Just so I understand what you're saying, is it your opinion that living things just know how make copies of themselves without any plan, purpose, or reason that directed or instructed them to do so?
Living organisms don't know how to make copies of themselves (at a genetic level, obviously they know how they reproduce). However, the replication of genetic material, which is a purely chemical process no more out of the ordinary than any other, is a very well understood field of study: here's a reference source so you can learn all about it, if you want. No design, no plan, just chemicals doing what they do in accordance with the predictable and replicable behaviors of chemistry. No magic required, and that is the entirety of genetic replication and reproduction. this is atheist theology (AA:3:20:5 - 7) and thus makes it seem we are a religion. It's basically based on blind faith. And tossing in the word magic to mean no-nothing is misleading. The universe doesn't use magic. Weather there is or is not a god.
"NO purpose". we don't know enough to say "no purpose". the passing on of information is a reasonable bottom line purpose. "no purpose" isn't as reasonable.
yea animals do know how to copy themselves. Its called reproduction. I don't see any bird schools teaching birdie lessons. The only thing that doesn't need schooling is "stupid".
"designed". Life forms are most certainly designed by the surrounding system. You may not like it, but it's a fact. And we don't know if there is something behind it, but the data suggest there may very well be something. No Omni thing. but a thing.
anti-logical Fallacies of Ambiguity
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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 10:22 am
(May 23, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Freedom4me Wrote: Are you serious? Just so I understand what you're saying, is it your opinion that living things just know how make copies of themselves without any plan, purpose, or reason that directed or instructed them to do so?
It is called 'chemical reactions'. Throw a chunk of sodium in a bucket of water. Is there purpose or reason why it reacts? Is it purposely going to explode and come after you?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 10:25 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2015 at 10:37 am by comet.
Edit Reason: spellering
)
(May 24, 2015 at 9:58 am)robvalue Wrote: It's a good point. The truth got out, even while being dragged backwards all the way. If a scientist has a shred of honesty, they have to respect the findings and the evidence, regardless of how it impacts their personal beliefs. It's clear even now how religion is trying to ruin education, literally in the cases of people going around burning books and destroying libraries, and by sabotage through trying to get nonsense taught as "alternatives" in the science room. It would have been far easier to ignore the results, but thankfully some people had the backbone to respect the data.
It is quite incredible that science finally broke free of those shackles and the persecution of anyone daring to challenge the status quo, and scary to think how much time has been lost and knowledge possibly forgotten.
lmao like science broke free of anything. too funny. You should put this crap in a atheist bible. People have always been breaking free. But before the late 19th century they were short on observations so the magic stuff had equal weight. Now, thankfully magic traits assigned to a thing are silly.
Never forget the emotional needs being used for a strongly held belief. Basically, past experience drives present beliefs in many cases.
anti-logical Fallacies of Ambiguity
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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 10:31 am
(May 24, 2015 at 10:25 am)comet Wrote: lmao like science broke free of anything. too funny. You should put this crap in a atheist bible. People have always been breaking free. But before the late 19th century they were short on observations so the magic stuff had equal weight. Now, thankfully magic traits assigned to a thing are silly.
Never forget the emotional needs being used for the base of a strongly held belief. Basically, past experience drives present beliefs in many cases. If we are not aware of that the past seems real. PTSD.
Tiny print not good for old eyes. Lots of us here.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Nature's Laws
May 24, 2015 at 10:35 am
(May 24, 2015 at 10:31 am)IATIA Wrote: (May 24, 2015 at 10:25 am)comet Wrote: lmao like science broke free of anything. too funny. You should put this crap in a atheist bible. People have always been breaking free. But before the late 19th century they were short on observations so the magic stuff had equal weight. Now, thankfully magic traits assigned to a thing are silly.
Never forget the emotional needs being used for the base of a strongly held belief. Basically, past experience drives present beliefs in many cases. If we are not aware of that the past seems real. PTSD.
Tiny print not good for old eyes. Lots of us here.
hmm, I am blind in one eye and can read it. Maybe its my settings? Thanks for telling me.
anti-logical Fallacies of Ambiguity
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