Nature's Laws

[Esquilax]

this is atheist theology  (AA:3:20:5 - 7) and thus makes it seem we are a religion.  It's basically based on blind faith. And tossing in the word magic to mean no-nothing is misleading.  The universe doesn't use magic.  Weather there is or is not a god.

I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not, but if you are, you're rather overstating your case.

 

"NO purpose". we don't  know enough to say "no purpose".  the passing on of information is a reasonable bottom line purpose.  "no purpose" isn't as reasonable.

I think it's pretty clear, contextually, what I mean: no apparent divinely instantiated purpose. Even the passing on of information isn't a purpose in the way theists want to use the word, it's just what organisms do, a consequence of the fact that the ones that didn't died and didn't leave any offspring behind.
 

yea animals do know how to copy themselves. Its called reproduction.  I don't see any bird schools teaching birdie lessons.  The only thing that doesn't need schooling is "stupid".

Animals know how to reproduce. DNA doesn't know how to replicate, it's just the chemical reaction that happens.
 

"designed".  Life forms are most certainly designed by the surrounding system.  You may not like it, but it's a fact.

Yeah, because I'm so apt to respond to people who just demand that things are facts, absent any evidence.

Life forms are shaped by their surrounding systems, in that their survival hinges on being able to exist within that environment, but to call that design is misleading, as there's no prior intent or conscious planning going into the thing, anything that we might reasonably say is a hallmark of design. It's just a series of mutations, and the question of whether they are good enough to survive the ecosystem.

  And we don't know if there is something behind it, but the data suggest there may very well be something.  No Omni thing. but a thing.

Probably gonna have to go into more detail than a vague "the data." Theist apologists demonstrate quite neatly that data can be skewed any which-a-way, if the interlocutor is desperate enough to reach a conclusion.

[Freedom4me]

Are you serious?  Just so I understand what you're saying, is it your opinion that living things just know how make copies of themselves without any plan, purpose, or reason that directed or instructed them to do so?  

Living organisms don't know how to make copies of themselves (at a genetic level, obviously they know how they reproduce). However, the replication of genetic material, which is a purely chemical process no more out of the ordinary than any other, is a very well understood field of study: here's a reference source so you can learn all about it, if you want. No design, no plan, just chemicals doing what they do in accordance with the predictable and replicable behaviors of chemistry. No magic required, and that is the entirety of genetic replication and reproduction.

Then I've got a way for you to become a billionaire!  Well, maybe not you, but one of your great, great, grand kids.  Here is what you do:  You just buy a few million silicon wafers that haven't been processed (etched) and you plant them in the ground, making your very own "silicon chip farm."  As soon as the undirected forces of nature start acting on the silicon chips, it's only a matter of time until at least some of them begin to learn how to reproduce themselves.  From that point, the ones that have spontaneously developed the ability to reproduce themselves, you can just let evolution work its magic on these reproducing chips, and eventually you're certain to get some of the most valuable computer chips in the world!  It's worth a try, isn't it?

[The Grand Nudger]

Why do you think that would happen, Freedom? Why think it would only be a matter of time? Granted, self replicating chips would be valuable.......
(and are you sure that it hasn't already happened - minus the full retard details you chose to include..obvs?)

[IATIA]

---

Then I've got a way for you to become a billionaire!  Well, maybe not you, but one of your great, great, grand kids.  Here is what you do:  You just buy a few million silicon wafers that haven't been processed (etched) and you plant them in the ground, making your very own "silicon chip farm."  As soon as the undirected forces of nature start acting on the silicon chips, it's only a matter of time until at least some of them begin to learn how to reproduce themselves.  From that point, the ones that have spontaneously developed the ability to reproduce themselves, you can just let evolution work its magic on these reproducing chips, and eventually you're certain to get some of the most valuable computer chips in the world!  It's worth a try, isn't it?

---

Firstly, silicon has never been a predecessor to life and secondly, evolution took billions of years.

[Esquilax]

Living organisms don't know how to make copies of themselves (at a genetic level, obviously they know how they reproduce). However, the replication of genetic material, which is a purely chemical process no more out of the ordinary than any other, is a very well understood field of study: here's a reference source so you can learn all about it, if you want. No design, no plan, just chemicals doing what they do in accordance with the predictable and replicable behaviors of chemistry. No magic required, and that is the entirety of genetic replication and reproduction.

Then I've got a way for you to become a billionaire!  Well, maybe not you, but one of your great, great, grand kids.  Here is what you do:  You just buy a few million silicon wafers that haven't been processed (etched) and you plant them in the ground, making your very own "silicon chip farm."  As soon as the undirected forces of nature start acting on the silicon chips, it's only a matter of time until at least some of them begin to learn how to reproduce themselves.  From that point, the ones that have spontaneously developed the ability to reproduce themselves, you can just let evolution work its magic on these reproducing chips, and eventually you're certain to get some of the most valuable computer chips in the world!  It's worth a try, isn't it?

Look, if you're not going to seriously engage with what I'm showing you, and if you're just going to leap to another topic the moment you're provided with evidence against the first one- because you've gone from a discussion of how reproduction works back to the same strawman of abiogenesis you used before- then we're done here. I'm not going to try to educate someone unless they're willing to come to that discussion honestly, and what you're doing here is not honest.

[Freedom4me]

If my agnostic leanings mean I have to give up the "atheist" moniker, perhaps I'll coin my own.  Put me down as an "a-give-a-shit'ist".

I like it!

---

I wonder what exactly people think "science" gets out of proposing evolution if it was false? It's not like we all pay a Darwin tax. Is it really just the thought that science wants to piss off religion? What a dim, childish science that would be.

Great point, robvalue.  And I agree with you that religion is very often the problem.  In Galileo's time, the Catholic church was apparently very threatened by science.  

[LostLocke]

Then I've got a way for you to become a billionaire!  Well, maybe not you, but one of your great, great, grand kids.  Here is what you do:  You just buy a few million silicon wafers that haven't been processed (etched) and you plant them in the ground, making your very own "silicon chip farm."  As soon as the undirected forces of nature start acting on the silicon chips, it's only a matter of time until at least some of them begin to learn how to reproduce themselves.  From that point, the ones that have spontaneously developed the ability to reproduce themselves, you can just let evolution work its magic on these reproducing chips, and eventually you're certain to get some of the most valuable computer chips in the world!  It's worth a try, isn't it?

Wow.
If you think silicon can and will do that, you need to take Chemistry 101.
I'm not saying retake because I have to assume you didn't take it in the first place or else you wouldn't have made that statement.

Actually, I have to take that back. Chemistry 101 implies college level classes. I, however, learned that in high school, so.....

[Iroscato]

Living organisms don't know how to make copies of themselves (at a genetic level, obviously they know how they reproduce). However, the replication of genetic material, which is a purely chemical process no more out of the ordinary than any other, is a very well understood field of study: here's a reference source so you can learn all about it, if you want. No design, no plan, just chemicals doing what they do in accordance with the predictable and replicable behaviors of chemistry. No magic required, and that is the entirety of genetic replication and reproduction.

Then I've got a way for you to become a billionaire!  Well, maybe not you, but one of your great, great, grand kids.  Here is what you do:  You just buy a few million silicon wafers that haven't been processed (etched) and you plant them in the ground, making your very own "silicon chip farm."  As soon as the undirected forces of nature start acting on the silicon chips, it's only a matter of time until at least some of them begin to learn how to reproduce themselves.  From that point, the ones that have spontaneously developed the ability to reproduce themselves, you can just let evolution work its magic on these reproducing chips, and eventually you're certain to get some of the most valuable computer chips in the world!  It's worth a try, isn't it?

You're a wilfully ignorant fucking moron, and I'm embarrassed to share a gene pool with you.

[Whateverist]

You're a wilfully ignorant fucking moron, and I'm embarrassed to share a gene pool with you.

Yeah I just hope his near ancestors didn't pee in my end of the pool.

[comet]

this is atheist theology  (AA:3:20:5 - 7) and thus makes it seem we are a religion.  It's basically based on blind faith. And tossing in the word magic to mean no-nothing is misleading.  The universe doesn't use magic.  Weather there is or is not a god.

I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not, but if you are, you're rather overstating your case.

 

"NO purpose". we don't  know enough to say "no purpose".  the passing on of information is a reasonable bottom line purpose.  "no purpose" isn't as reasonable.

I think it's pretty clear, contextually, what I mean: no apparent divinely instantiated purpose. Even the passing on of information isn't a purpose in the way theists want to use the word, it's just what organisms do, a consequence of the fact that the ones that didn't died and didn't leave any offspring behind.
 

yea animals do know how to copy themselves. Its called reproduction.  I don't see any bird schools teaching birdie lessons.  The only thing that doesn't need schooling is "stupid".

Animals know how to reproduce. DNA doesn't know how to replicate, it's just the chemical reaction that happens.
 

"designed".  Life forms are most certainly designed by the surrounding system.  You may not like it, but it's a fact.

Yeah, because I'm so apt to respond to people who just demand that things are facts, absent any evidence.

Life forms are shaped by their surrounding systems, in that their survival hinges on being able to exist within that environment, but to call that design is misleading, as there's no prior intent or conscious planning going into the thing, anything that we might reasonably say is a hallmark of design. It's just a series of mutations, and the question of whether they are good enough to survive the ecosystem.

  And we don't know if there is something behind it, but the data suggest there may very well be something.  No Omni thing. but a thing.

Probably gonna have to go into more detail than a vague "the data." Theist apologists demonstrate quite neatly that data can be skewed any which-a-way, if the interlocutor is desperate enough to reach a conclusion.

Not even wasting my time.   To you apologists is a bad thing.  I see them as at least trying to change based on new information.  Weather is or is not a god is irrelevant me.  I am only anti-over-organized religion.  So we are at a impasse already.


you have a belief of no god.  you really are not interested in things like space being "something" (as shown by nasa), the laws of thermodynamics, or information being stored in states of matter and being expressed while the states change.  so in the end you, like most, won't care what the facts are and will just say "nope I don't believe that.".  Just like theist do with evolution.   


lmao, nature doesn't "know" but human sure do. That's just funny.