Another "I saw Jesus" claim

[dyresand]

He needs hospital treatment. Trust me on this.

Yeah...all the blood rushing to that thing is a health risk 

[Cyberman]

You don't need to tell me - I was that soldier.

[Randy Carson]

I am more confident in the image taken from the Shroud.

Which not even the Roman Catholic church accepts as genuine or miraculous.

St. John Paul II



Pope Benedict XVI

---

If we did, would you believe them? No.

So, not having photos of Jesus is evidence that he does not exist, but having photos would not be evidence that he does exist.

Hmmm...it seems like you want to have it both ways.

And that sounds like a presupposition at work to me. 

Nope evidence what so ever in Roman records, even if jesus existed pontious pilate would have written down something in a memo or something but no.
jesus never existed to begin with. There is no historical evidence whatsoever that Pilate ever administered the case of Jesus. The accounts were written into histories by the early church decades and centuries after the event was supposed to have happened. i don't wanna call you dumb but...you are easily fooled by your church and your religion wipe the bullshit out of eyes and actually question your book. 

Why should the death of an obscure Jewish carpenter on the outskirts of the Roman Empire be recorded by any document? Who cares?

Or is it the other way around? We never would have heard of Pontius Pilate if it were not for Jesus. Josephus mentions Pilate in connection with Jesus. So does Tacitus.

And then there is Festus. You remember him, right? No? Read on...

The Procurator and the Peasant

by Jimmy Akin
http://jimmyakin.com/2014/10/the-procurator-and-the-peasant.html
 
In the book of Acts, one of the key chronological benchmarks is in , when the Roman procurator who presently has Paul in custody (Felix) is replaced by his successor (Festus).
 
You’d think that it would be easy to simply look up in secular sources when this change of government officials took place, but we can’t do that. We don’t have the records, and dating the beginning of Festus’s tenure is tricky.
 
In fact, as Ben Witherington points out:
 
About Felix’s successor, Porcius Festus, very little can be said, for our sources are limited to what we find in Acts 25–26 and in Josephus, Ant. 20.182–97 and War 2.271 [The Acts of the Apostles: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary, 717].
 
Got that?
 
The sources we have about Festus are limited to Acts and a couple of passages in Josephus. Now, Festus was an important man. He ruled the entire province of Judaea (more than just the Southern territory of Judea). He had a huge number of subjects. He’s one of the successors of Pontius Pilate. Further, he was one of the few (some say the only) good procurator that the Romans sent to Judaea. And yet we know only a tiny amount about him.
 
From this, several things suggest themselves…
 
1) The footprint left in ancient historical sources by even as important a person as the Roman procurator of Judaea can be very slight.
 
No doubt, in his own day, there were many more literary references to him–in all kinds of works, from official government documents to private letters–but except for the references in Acts and two passages of Josephus, they have all perished.
 
2) This should help us calibrate our expectations regarding other people in the ancient world.
 
If the Roman procurator has only two ancient authors mentioning him, then we would expect the vast majority of his subjects to go completely unmentioned in historical sources–as, indeed, they do.
We know the names of only a handful of Festus’s subjects, and they are people who have significant stature, like the high priests of his day.
 
3) We should not make excessive demands about mentions of Jesus in ancient sources.
 
Jesus came from the peasant class (Luke 2:24; cf. ), and we would expect the events of his early life to leave no traces at all in surviving secular sources. It was only after his ministry began that he became such a public figure that he might be expected to be mentioned in non-Christian sources, as he and the movement he founded is:
 
§          Josephus, writing around A.D. 93 (including the undisputed passage regarding his brother James the Just)
§          Pliny the Younger, writing in A.D. 110 or 111
§          The Emperor Trajan, replying to Pliny in A.D. 110 or 111
§          Tacitus, writing around A.D. 116
§         Suetonius, writing around A.D. 121
Comparing this to the single non-Christian source mentioning Festus (Josephus), and the number of early, non-Christian sources mentioning Jesus is quite ample!
 
He left a bigger footprint on the literature of his day than did this Roman procurator!
 
4) We shouldn’t dismiss the historical value of biblical evidence
 
A historian of the Roman empire would have two early century sources to tell him about Porcius Festus: Luke and Josephus. It would be foolish to ignore either of these and, indeed, secular historians do not discount things Luke says simply because his works are in the New Testament. Only hyper-skeptical individuals dismiss the New Testament as a historical source out of hand. Sober historians treat it like they do other historical sources. One coming from a secular approach will not regard it as divinely inspired, but that does not mean it is without historical value.
 
The idea that everything the New Testament says should be considered false unless otherwise confirmed by outside sources is nonsense. Historical evidence found in the New Testament is just that . . . historical evidence.

 

[abaris]

Which not even the Roman Catholic church accepts as genuine or miraculous.

St. John Paul II



Pope Benedict XVI

---

And yet, as can be easily looked up, the official position is tap dancing around the issue. As opposed to some other relics, which are equally dubious in their origin.

[Minimalist]

Or is it the other way around? We never would have heard of Pontius Pilate if it were not for Jesus. Josephus mentions Pilate in connection with Jesus. So does Tacitus.

Idiot.  Philo wrote about Pilate without ever mentioning your phony godboy....of course, Philo died c 50 AD which was long before the jesus bullshit was invented.  Josephus wrote about Pilate bringing images of the emperor into Jerusalem which supposedly upset the jews.  Then he wrote that Pilate built an aqueduct to improve the city water supply and used the temple treasury to do so.  (No doubt that pissed off the priests....even today, priests get really upset when their money is threatened!)  And then, some later forger, probably Eusebius, invented the 3d paragraph because the lack of historical references to the godboy was too much for that fucking phony to take.  And to this day, jackasses like you fall for it!

Plus we have the Pilate inscription and various coins from his administration so, no.  Pilate we would know of.  Your godboy?  Not so much.


And, for the record, even if Tacitus is not a later forgery, he never mentions the word "jesus."

[Randy Carson]

St. John Paul II



Pope Benedict XVI

---

And yet, as can be easily looked up, the official position is tap dancing around the issue. As opposed to some other relics, which are equally dubious in their origin.

And this is because the Catholic Church understands that the Shroud cannot be PROVEN to be the burial cloth of Christ. She is prudent in this regard, and if the claims were more, you would be howling against them.

However, as seen above, the Shroud does cause us to reflect upon what happened to Jesus because it appears to parallel the forensic account of Jesus' passion so well.

[Mudhammam]

Why yes...Peter and many other followers of Jesus did see Him after the crucifixion. 

Of course, they weren't dead at the time, but then neither was He. 

Well, I guess I'm not gullible enough to think that people who can experience hallucinations and then retain the images in memory afterwards were ever brain dead, though I can understand why that might not appear to be a difficulty to someone who thinks Jesus took off like a balloon and floated up into cloudy skies after he was supposedly killed.

[Cyberman]

Lol @ "forensic account".

[abaris]

However, as seen above, the Shroud does cause us to reflect upon what happened to Jesus because it appears to parallel the forensic account of Jesus' passion so well.

And the forensic account would be by the esteemed doctor bible.

[Minimalist]

Next he'll be claiming that his bullshit bible is more accurate than C14 dating!