Faith vs Belief

[Whateverist]

let's see, make up shit.  then cover it in more shit.  then smear the shit all over the place so people don't see the original pile of bullshit.

Yup, that's sums up philosophy perfectly.

Not all of us are talented enough to blather incoherent innuendo in every post.  We have to rely on philosophy.

[Godscreated]

GC - your last post put me in mind of a bit of writing by e.e. cummings about a man who sits on a chair on a tightrope and sways.  In the process of looking for that quote I found this other I like even better.  I'm pretty certain it comes from his "Six Non-lectures", one of my three favorite books.

http://www.mrbauld.com/ee.html

Mostpeople fancy a guaranteed birthproof safetysuit of nondestructible selflessness. If mostpeople were to be born twice they'd improbably call it dying-

you and I are not snobs. We can never be born enough. We are human beings;for whom birth is a supremely welcome mystery,the mystery of growing:the mystery which happens only and whenever we are faithful to ourselves. You and I wear the dangerous looseness of doom and find it becoming. Life,for eternal us,is now;and now is much too busy being a little more than everything to seem anything,catastrophic included.

I think the "most-people" he finds fault with include true-believers.  Their "birth proof safety-suit" consists of the beliefs they cling to which guarantee they will never be renewed by a new and larger vision.

GC
Seems to me that his understanding of Christianity is limited at best if he believes Christians are not renewed everyday by new and larger visions, at least for those who continue to pursue their relationship with God.

 For them the thought of such a re-birth can only be felt as a loss.  Since they so identify with their beliefs, anything which threatens them entails what they feel to be their death.

Again I must say his understanding of Christianity is limited, Christianity is a rebirth, if it were not it would be a useless religion and can be a rebirth daily if we desire that. Also we have the eternal resurrection, the ultimate rebirth.

But people who embrace the mystery are not snobbish about their existing beliefs.  "We" leave our beliefs at risk and do not identify with them in such a way.

Christians embrace the mysteries we face with God through our faith and we come to understand we risked nothing by leaving what we use to believe, we come to this understanding through study of scripture and revelations from God, this is belief.

 We welcome the rebirth of a better world view or paradigm change.  More light, more inclusion, more understanding .. we just say let it be.  Let what is limiting and mistaken fall away and let my new self move forward.  In death is life, not catastrophe.

Christians embrace their rebirth, why because we were looking for a change for a better life and better world view. We come into a new light and hope for greater inclusion, we say let it be your way God our omniscient savior. We say God guide us forward through life to be what others need us to be. The scriptures teach us that death leads to a new and better life in this world and the next.

GC

Sorry I believe I used the quote bracketing wrong, but I'm sure you will figure that out.

[Whateverist]

GC - your last post put me in mind of a bit of writing by e.e. cummings about a man who sits on a chair on a tightrope and sways.  In the process of looking for that quote I found this other I like even better.  I'm pretty certain it comes from his "Six Non-lectures", one of my three favorite books.

http://www.mrbauld.com/ee.html



I think the "most-people" he finds fault with include true-believers.  Their "birth proof safety-suit" consists of the beliefs they cling to which guarantee they will never be renewed by a new and larger vision.
 For them the thought of such a re-birth can only be felt as a loss.  Since they so identify with their beliefs, anything which threatens them entails what they feel to be their death.


But people who embrace the mystery are not snobbish about their existing beliefs.  "We" leave our beliefs at risk and do not identify with them in such a way.
 We welcome the rebirth of a better world view or paradigm change.  More light, more inclusion, more understanding .. we just say let it be.  Let what is limiting and mistaken fall away and let my new self move forward.  In death is life, not catastrophe.

Sorry I believe I used the quote bracketing wrong, but I'm sure you will figure that out.

I was going to try to reformat it for you but when I quote you most of your reply is missing.  Very strange. But yes, I did figure it out.

[comet]

FAITH/
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms:
trust, belief, confidence, conviction; More
 
belief
noun
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"

2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"
synonyms:
faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
"belief in the value of hard work"

we can, at best, use a type of understanding like we have with "Annoyed and Angry." So discussing the deference between "belief" and "faith" is for people that are not interested in how the universe works but rather they are trying pin point their own belief with less "facts" and more "words" as the axioms. The problem is it is not anchored in understand or even definitions. It is anchored in vernaculars, or what Christ called sand. I call it bullshit. When we get to this level the hiezenburger uncertainty in understanding applies. We can't know the exact definition and The exact meaning at the same in philosophy. fubar-ed.

[Whateverist]

we can, at best, use a type of understanding like we have with "Annoyed and Angry."   So discussing the deference between "belief" and "faith" is for people that are not interested in how the universe works but rather they are trying pin point their own belief with less "facts" and more "words" as the axioms.

Here is some practical advice for you. Learn to express your feelings and opinions as such. If you had said "I feel" that people who dwell on the meaning of words instead of empirical facts don't care about how the universe works, you might at least get a response, like "why do you think that"? Instead, since you choose to present yourself as the expert on peoples true intentions, you just come off as a buffoon.

The problem is it is not anchored in understand or even definitions.  It is anchored in vernaculars, or what Christ called sand.  I call it bullshit.  When we get to this level the hiezenburger uncertainty in understanding applies.  We can't know the exact definition and The exact meaning at the same in philosophy.  fubar-ed.

So is there a question in there for me or are you just here to call bullshit based on more of your vaporous innuendo? Those who are interested in philosophy probably understand something about it that is escaping you. I know you like to come off as mr. science, but no one here is going to buy into your self bestowed credentials. You have a thuggish interpersonal style which I don't appreciate.

[comet]

yeah thats it. You wrote pages on two words.

Case closed.