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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 8:05 am
(May 30, 2015 at 11:03 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: (May 30, 2015 at 1:06 pm)Drich Wrote: In short it is a measure of God that you personally get to interact with. When you 'good people' want proof of God you are asking for an interaction with the Holy Spirit (Because as I have said here many times before what better 'proof' of God is their than of God Himself?)
...
This is the same sort of thing that believers in other religions say. There are Muslims who report the same sorts of experiences as you. Do you think that proves that Islam is correct? There are Hindus who report religious connections as well. Do you think that proves that Hinduism is correct?
However it may seem and feel to you, it is no evidence at all. Pretty much every religion has the same sort of "evidence" for them, too. Since religions all contradict each other, at most, only one religion could be right (though they could all be wrong). So religions that are false have exactly this same type of "evidence" that you are putting forth. Which means that it cannot possibly prove the religions to be true.
Christians deny the religious experiences of other faiths or they attribute them to the devil.
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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 9:19 am
Anyone who brings "the devil deluding people" into the conversation instantly loses all credibility because they undermine their own position as well as trying to smear everyone else's.
Everyone thinks they are special and can't be fooled by the devil. Of course, that's just what he wants you to think.
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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 9:38 am
(May 31, 2015 at 9:19 am)robvalue Wrote: Anyone who brings "the devil deluding people" into the conversation instantly loses all credibility because they undermine their own position as well as trying to smear everyone else's.
Everyone thinks they are special and can't be fooled by the devil. Of course, that's just what he wants you to think.
Satan got to you too.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 9:48 am
Yeah, he did. He didn't even have to try, I sold out right away before he even started with the tempting and stuff. I miss my soul... He says I can have it back if I can make ten thousand more atheists.
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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 9:56 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2015 at 11:59 am by vorlon13.)
Seems like a deal to me.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 10:16 am
(May 31, 2015 at 8:05 am)Nope Wrote: (May 30, 2015 at 11:03 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: This is the same sort of thing that believers in other religions say. There are Muslims who report the same sorts of experiences as you. Do you think that proves that Islam is correct? There are Hindus who report religious connections as well. Do you think that proves that Hinduism is correct?
However it may seem and feel to you, it is no evidence at all. Pretty much every religion has the same sort of "evidence" for them, too. Since religions all contradict each other, at most, only one religion could be right (though they could all be wrong). So religions that are false have exactly this same type of "evidence" that you are putting forth. Which means that it cannot possibly prove the religions to be true.
Christians deny the religious experiences of other faiths or they attribute them to the devil.
They have nothing more than the testimony of others for believing that anyone else in their faith has such experiences, which is the exact same evidence that they have for the religious experiences of people of other faiths. Since the evidence for both is identical, they have no reason to believe the one group and not the other group regarding the genuineness of the experiences.
Also, as robvalue already pointed out, how can they be so sure that the devil has not fooled them? The devil is supposed to be clever, and what is more ingenious than the devil telling the person that he is really god?
So, again, this shows that religious experiences are not evidence of god.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 11:34 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2015 at 11:40 am by Drich.)
(May 30, 2015 at 8:50 pm)Nope Wrote: (May 30, 2015 at 1:06 pm)Drich Wrote: I know the Holy Spirit exists because He has Carried me through more than one BIG trial. It took the end of my world, the end of all my hope for getting out of a situation by my own doing, to be humble/broken enough to see God working for me. Once I knew what to look for, I saw it all over. I once was blind to God, and Now I can see Him. That is the Only 'proof' we are ever given... The OPPERTUNITY To See God the Holy Spirit. If we turn from God in those trials we will remain blind.
Whatever you experienced, you own strength of will and, perhaps support from your friends, got you through your difficulties. You are underestimating yourself.
Many people live through very difficult times in their lives without believing in your god. They survive because of their own determination and perhaps the assistance of friends, relatives and the medical profession.
I was actually referring to helping my wife though her addiction. 'We' quickly ran through all the help and mercy our friends had for us. We burned through several trips to 10k dollar rehab facilities which had her parents turn from us. This also triggered an 8 year shunning between my dad and I because he was convinced she had me hooked on heroin as well. My mother didn't turn, she just stopped showing up. Then she started to steal from our company and nearly bankrupted us. Then she started selling things like her wedding bann and everything that was not nailed down. So I essence she turned on m as well. I carried us like this working 12-15 hours a day all the while making sure she got to meetings and methodone clinic and then. Starting over when she fail. Over and over again maybe a full year maybe a little longer. Then she OD'ed in the bathroom of a barns and noble. She was found blue on the floor with the needle in her arm not breathing... That was the end for me the lies, the drugs, the stealing, the hatred she had for me, the isolation was all too much.. I prayed for mercy and I prayed for God to take this responsibility from me...
He did in the way of the sheriffs department at 3 am.. Once she was bailed out we had a long talk with both of us among God to take this addiction from her. It was like someone turned off a switch.. After her detox it was like a completely different person.. That was almost 10 years ago now.
When I said God uses the rains to strip you of everything that is keeping you from seeing him, he will do exactly that. You will know that what ever happens comes from Him. Not because it happens but how it all comes about.
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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 11:52 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2015 at 11:55 am by The Grand Nudger.)
-after her detox-
Would have been more impressed by your story if you claimed the magic worked -prior to her detox-. It's not uncommon, you know, for people to be "entirely different" when they are off a drug, than they are when they're on it. Pretty sure theres an explanation for that that doesn't involve you wishing her into wellness......don't you think you're being a little silly?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 12:18 pm
(May 30, 2015 at 1:06 pm)Drich Wrote: Or for direct communication, say for instance I have a question, I pray over the question. Then I'll get fragments of verses that come to mind. I will google or do a concordance search for key words, and I find my answer in the bible.
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RE: What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do?
May 31, 2015 at 12:45 pm
(May 31, 2015 at 11:34 am)Drich Wrote: (May 30, 2015 at 8:50 pm)Nope Wrote: Whatever you experienced, you own strength of will and, perhaps support from your friends, got you through your difficulties. You are underestimating yourself.
Many people live through very difficult times in their lives without believing in your god. They survive because of their own determination and perhaps the assistance of friends, relatives and the medical profession.
I was actually referring to helping my wife though her addiction. 'We' quickly ran through all the help and mercy our friends had for us. We burned through several trips to 10k dollar rehab facilities which had her parents turn from us. This also triggered an 8 year shunning between my dad and I because he was convinced she had me hooked on heroin as well. My mother didn't turn, she just stopped showing up. Then she started to steal from our company and nearly bankrupted us. Then she started selling things like her wedding bann and everything that was not nailed down. So I essence she turned on m as well. I carried us like this working 12-15 hours a day all the while making sure she got to meetings and methodone clinic and then. Starting over when she fail. Over and over again maybe a full year maybe a little longer. Then she OD'ed in the bathroom of a barns and noble. She was found blue on the floor with the needle in her arm not breathing... That was the end for me the lies, the drugs, the stealing, the hatred she had for me, the isolation was all too much.. I prayed for mercy and I prayed for God to take this responsibility from me...
He did in the way of the sheriffs department at 3 am.. Once she was bailed out we had a long talk with both of us among God to take this addiction from her. It was like someone turned off a switch.. After her detox it was like a completely different person.. That was almost 10 years ago now.
When I said God uses the rains to strip you of everything that is keeping you from seeing him, he will do exactly that. You will know that what ever happens comes from Him. Not because it happens but how it all comes about.
You stuck out a bad situation with your wife and got her help. She almost died and decided to turn her life around. That isn't miraculous.
Of course, you lost everything because you chose to remain in a very toxic relationship.
I am glad that your wife is free of drugs and your life is better but the only thing religion did was help provide you with a crutch. That is one of the reasons why I don't usually try to deconvert people Perhaps you needed a make believe friend to get you through that period in your life but that doesn't mean that god is real.
Drich, give credit to yourself and your wife.
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