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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 9:48 am
(This post was last modified: June 6, 2015 at 9:48 am by Saxmoof.)
Americans do seem to believe whatever makes them feel good more than people from other developed countries, i'm thinking of the USA #1!!! crowd and the global warming deniers specifically
Maybe there's a gullibility gene that religious people have that the pilgrims passed down to the present day Americans. I'm aware this is a crazy theory but I can't think of another reason why the US is the exception to the global pattern of the more developed countries being less religious - you can point to politics and education being too influenced by religion, but that doesn't explain how they got that way in the first place.. what the hell happened?
“The larger the group, the more toxic, the more of your beauty as an individual you have to surrender for the sake of group thought. And when you suspend your individual beauty you also give up a lot of your humanity. You will do things in the name of a group that you would never do on your own. Injuring, hurting, killing, drinking are all part of it, because you've lost your identity, because you now owe your allegiance to this thing that's bigger than you are and that controls you.” - George Carlin
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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 11:25 am
(This post was last modified: June 6, 2015 at 11:30 am by JuliaL.)
(June 6, 2015 at 1:18 am)robvalue Wrote: I think it's because America was (not) founded on Christian principles.
I too really sympathise. I know I've got it easy, in terms of religious nutters. That's one of the big reasons I wanted to join an atheist community to help provide some relief from the madness.
It's hard to say exactly what the cause is, but I think the point about politics is a very valid one. There's nothing like the kind of preaching and religious bias in our politics. Shit as it is, if anyone started talking about "what God wants" in a campaign speech, they would probably have committed career suicide.
I would say that the United States as constituted in the late 18th century was founded on enlightenment thought with an express intention of excluding religion.
But the North American continent was initially colonized by extreme religious nutballs that couldn't get along well enough to stay in Europe.
They got kicked out (or oppressed enough and encouraged to leave) and founded religious camps in what many of them thought was the new Israel. I live 25 miles from Zion Illinois.
No surprise that only 250 years later the tenacious tendrils of religious extremism still wrap themselves around community and civic life here.
The founders were geniuses and we were lucky to have had them. They established a foundation that has endured and to some degree improved equity among its members even while it was operated by the religious nutballs.
Stay tuned. It's a race between sanity, Ruth Bader Ginsberg's or Scalia's life expectancy and who gets elected POTUS next.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat?
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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 12:38 pm
To JuliaL's post, I would add that our situation in the U.S. is also the result of the 1st Amendment, specifically the Establishment Clause. Since we do not have an official established church here, the religious scene is a free-for-all with various denominations and sects competing for market share and churches popping up like toadstools everywhere. I've never been to Europe, but I suspect the church leaders there don't have that used-car-salesman vibe that is so prevalent here.
Elmer Gantry is alive and well.
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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 12:48 pm
(June 5, 2015 at 10:46 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Even if you visited, it would not be the same for you, as you would know that you may go home and be safe. We are pretty well stuck here.
Not entirely safe with the US being a nuclear power and having the biggest military in the world. There's always the (remote?) possibility that a religious nutter parks his ass in the White House and starts a policy that makes shrub look like Einstein. Both houses are already contaminated after all.
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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 12:50 pm
(June 6, 2015 at 12:48 pm)abaris Wrote: (June 5, 2015 at 10:46 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Even if you visited, it would not be the same for you, as you would know that you may go home and be safe. We are pretty well stuck here.
Not entirely safe with the US being a nuclear power and having the biggest military in the world. There's always the (remote?) possibility that a religious nutter parks his ass in the White House and starts a policy that makes shrub look like Einstein. Both houses are already contaminated after all.
Hey, we have to use those nuclear weapons, as otherwise, it will be the biggest waste of money in the history of the world.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 3:57 pm
I suspect the main points have been covered, give or take Europe's history of religious wars which must contribute to the disillusionment somewhat.
For myself I suspect that another factor maybe the relative isolation of the US.
A significant proportion of US citizens have never left their country whilst the opposite is true of Europe. This I reason leaves them vulnerable to being fed BS regarding the sites mentioned in the text which would immediately be challenged were they voiced here.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
- Esquilax
Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 4:54 pm
(June 6, 2015 at 3:57 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: I suspect the main points have been covered, give or take Europe's history of religious wars which must contribute to the disillusionment somewhat.
The two world wars and the ensuing replacement or at the very least questioning of the ruling classes played a much bigger role. Europe was much like the USA after WWII and all through the 50ies and early 60ies, but the so called '68 movement started to question every kind of authority, religion included.
Also, religion was pretty much contained by many European countries having state religions. Paradox as it may seem, the non establishment clause of the American constitution may have contributed to the country being that religious, since every wayward preacher could sell his very own brand of snake oil.
And that brings me back to questioning authority. In the USA religion never was officially part of authority, so it could spread much easier than it could in Europe, where religious leaders were seen as a major part of an authority to be questioned.
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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 5:11 pm
(June 6, 2015 at 1:27 am)Kitan Wrote: Because the Europeans were smart enough to send all the religious nuts over here back in 1942.
1492 /twat
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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 5:16 pm
Thank you for the correction. By the time I had realized my mistake, it was too late to edit.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Why is Atheism more controversial in America than Europe?
June 6, 2015 at 5:44 pm
(June 6, 2015 at 12:50 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Hey, we have to use those nuclear weapons, as otherwise, it will be the biggest waste of money in the history of the world.
They make really good doorstops and boat anchors.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat?
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