Why Did Uzzah Die For Touching the Ark?

[Randy Carson]

You married? Have kids? What happens to discipline in your house when you tell your son, "Don't pull the dog's tail", and he ignores you? He might get bitten or he might learn that dad is a wimp and there are no consequences for disobedience. So what happens later when he is playing ball in the yard and chases that ball into the street and you yell "Stop!" because a car is coming but he ignores his wimpy dad?

God says, "Don't touch the ark." Uzzah touches it. What do the Israelites learn from that? That God's rules can be broken? What happens when later God gives them some important life-and-death instructions, and they decide to ignore Him again? Lots more than one person might have died.

In order for the comparison to work, you would have to only talk to one of your children. That child would tell the other children your instructions.   When one child obeys an order from the child you put in charge, you KILL the child that broke the rule A parent would have to be both mentally and physically abusive to compare to bible god's treatment of Uzzah.

In order for YOUR comparison to work, the children would have to have absolutely NO knowledge of the parent's authority, identity, or expectation of careful obedience.

But look, it's already been established in other threads that God is a moral monster who condones rape and genocide, so why is this any big deal?

Moving on.

[Nope]

In order for the comparison to work, you would have to only talk to one of your children. That child would tell the other children your instructions.   When one child obeys an order from the child you put in charge, you KILL the child that broke the rule A parent would have to be both mentally and physically abusive to compare to bible god's treatment of Uzzah.

In order for YOUR comparison to work, the children would have to have absolutely NO knowledge of the parent's authority, identity, or expectation of careful obedience.

But look, it's already been established in other threads that God is a moral monster who condones rape and genocide, so why is this any big deal?

Moving on.

What are you talking about Randy? God only physically spoke to a few people and those people passed the laws on to the others. Your comment above mine makes no sense in relationship to the story about Uzzah.

Yes, your imaginary deity is a moral monster. Thank you for admitting it. Why didn't you say so in the first place? We could have avoid 15+ pages.

[Randy Carson]

In order for YOUR comparison to work, the children would have to have absolutely NO knowledge of the parent's authority, identity, or expectation of careful obedience.

But look, it's already been established in other threads that God is a moral monster who condones rape and genocide, so why is this any big deal?

Moving on.

What are you talking about Randy? God only physically spoke to a few people and those people passed the laws on to the others. Your comment above mine makes no sense in relationship to the story about Uzzah.

The Israelites had a long and dramatic history of God's presence in their midst.

Yes, your imaginary deity is a moral monster. Thank you for admitting it. Why didn't you say so in the first place? We could have avoid 15+ pages.

Yeah, but it's not my thread...

[Minimalist]

You cannot possibly "crush" this apologist under the weight of my bible.

Yeah, Randy's convinced me.  He's a very special class of stupid.  He might make cardinal some day.

[Nope]

Randy, why do you worship your god if you believe he is a moral monster?

[Redbeard The Pink]

Because you are finite and not able to prevent the permanent damage to the urn or the mess that would be created if it shattered, it would seem really great to you that your son caught the urn.

Even if I could have prevented the break myself, it would still seem great to me that he caught it. I'm not a dick.

If you had a couple of million people whose very lives might well depend on how closely they obeyed you, then you very well might. And if you were an infinite being, you MIGHT be in a position to bring that child into an eternal state of bliss after he died.

And if I were the kind of parent your god is, I would kill him and torture him forever for disobeying me instead of granting him that bliss.


Also, I think you're failing to realize that the only reason their lives depended on obedience is that god made a habit of murdering those who disobeyed him. Aside from that, there's really nothing in the old laws that inherently protected them from anything. In the Old Testament, at least, the biggest danger of disobeying god is actually god's wrath, not worldly dangers like disease or conquest.

As a finite being who did not have a GREATER purpose in mind for the clear instructions issued to his children, you would be correct.

My greater purpose for the urn in this example is the same as god's purpose for the ark: it's my shiny thing, and I don't want anyone touching it. What greater purpose than that do I need of I'm the reigning king of the universe? I AM the greater purpose in that case. I'm just also a dick is all.

Do you talk like this all the time? Or only online when speaking to Christians?

Yes and yes, especially in a country with free speech and a forum with virtually no rules regarding profanity. If I couldn't use the rest of the language properly, I suppose it might speak to poor knowledge of English, but the rest of my vocabulary excuses the occasional well-placed expletive, in my opinion.

Dude, you have absolutely met your match in me. You cannot possibly "crush" this apologist under the weight of my bible. And I enjoy the game just as much as you do...though I play for different reasons.

Ummm...you mean you haven't noticed? Oh wow...and nobody's told you either? Oh boy...well, this is maybe going to be a little embarrassing for both of us...mostly you, though (or maybe not...on second thought, you seem like you're probably hard to embarrass).


Now, you might not have realized this because you're not attentive to your surroundings, or due to intellectual capacity, or possibly just because you're not a fictional character and therefore don't have a visual depiction of the forum narrative to judge from...anyway, listen...you were already under a HUGE pile of bibles when I got to this forum. Like, FUCKING HUGE, ok?


People were all just kind of standing around in a circle throwing bibles onto this big pile. At first I didn't know what was going on and wouldn't have known, only I could see your little username floating above the pile and I could vaguely hear you screaming all these STUPID arguments from in there somewhere. I felt kind of bad, but everyone seemed to be having so much fun...so I just started throwing bibles on. I'm not necessarily proud of it...but there it is. You were an easy target on an atheist forum, and I just started throwing bibles on. I'm sorry. Bubba, you ain't got no legs. They've been crushed since before I got here.

As long as you are reasonably polite (I'll make some concessions due to your youth and your atheism) and making decent arguments, we can hit the ball back and forth a few times to see how it goes. If not, you can take that hammer and go pound sand for all I care.

How old do you think I am, exactly? 'Cause I gotta be honest...I thought you were, like, some fired up college kid who's on a mission to prove his parents' faith. Are you much older than that?

[Minimalist]

I think Randy is an old dumb fuck.

[Redbeard The Pink]

And HOW is this not your thread? Do you mean it's god's thread? Like, really? Come on now.

[Pyrrho]

...

Also, I think you're failing to realize that the only reason their lives depended on obedience is that god made a habit of murdering those who disobeyed him. Aside from that, there's really nothing in the old laws that inherently protected them from anything. In the Old Testament, at least, the biggest danger of disobeying god is actually god's wrath, not worldly dangers like disease or conquest.

...

That is an excellent point.

[Pyrrho]

And HOW is this not your thread? Do you mean it's god's thread? Like,  really? Come on now.

He means he did not start the thread.