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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 7:36 pm
(July 11, 2015 at 7:18 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: (July 11, 2015 at 6:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yup, seems like the next logical step, in this sort of thinking. Scary stuff, if you ask me.  It's only scary if you identify with the unborn ones*, which you shouldn't; they are, by definition, non-existent.
*I mean to say unconceived, though, as far as embryos go, they shouldn't matter either, as they can't really feel anything[as far as I know, that is; please correct me if I'm wrong about embryos. Anyway, my principle is this: don't care about it if it can't feel/know/think/grow(this means to say, if it can't develop without considerably endangering its own species in the process) or do any other thing considered human or even animal].
What I find fearful is the willingness to permit the government to violate privacy in such a profound manner ... my fear has nothing to do with the unborn.
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 7:46 pm
(July 11, 2015 at 7:07 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: (July 11, 2015 at 6:28 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I was wondering when eugenics would make its appearance.
You make it sound like it's a bad thing.
You know, just because the Nazis made bad use of Nietzsche, eugenics, fascism, warfare, the swastika, and a lot of other things, doesn't mean we shouldn't ever make use of them again.
I think it is a bad thing, and not because of the connection with NaZis.
1) I disagree that any government should wield that sort of power at all over its own citizenry.
2) Such a program would almost certainly reduce the genetic diversity of the species, with results that are unforeseeable but potentially disastrous.
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 7:51 pm
(This post was last modified: July 11, 2015 at 7:57 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(July 11, 2015 at 7:18 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: (July 11, 2015 at 6:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yup, seems like the next logical step, in this sort of thinking. Scary stuff, if you ask me. It's only scary if you identify with the unborn ones*, which you shouldn't; they are, by definition, non-existent.
*I mean to say unconceived, though, as far as embryos go, they shouldn't matter either, as they can't really feel anything[as far as I know, that is; please correct me if I'm wrong about embryos. Anyway, my principle is this: don't care about it if it can't feel/know/think/grow(this means to say, if it can't develop without considerably endangering its own species in the process) or do any other thing considered human or even animal].
Just some clarification here in regards to the bolded. 
A human is referred to as en embryo only for the first 2 months of his/her existence (may be different for other unborn animals, bur for humans it's 2 months). After that, he/she is referred to as a fetus until the time of birth. Once he is born, unless he is born very prematurely, he is referred to as an infant.
As for your feel/know/think/grow thing...
Well, in regards to feel, experts say we were able to begin feeling pain at 4-5 months in the womb.
Know/think - It's impossible to know what goes on in the mind of fetuses and younger infants, and of course, none of us can recall when we were in that position. But studies do show that at 7 months in the womb, we do begin going into REM sleep, which is the sleeping stage where we dream.
Grow - Well, we are all growing non stop from the moment of conception until we finished puberty. We were growing especially fast when we were still in utero. So yes, unborn humans and other animals are growing.
Hope that helps!
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 7:51 pm
Quote:KUSA Wrote: I think if we ever get to the point where forced sterilization is necessary we should start with people that have low IQ levels.
There won't be a republicunt left.
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 8:02 pm
(This post was last modified: July 11, 2015 at 8:02 pm by IATIA.)
(July 11, 2015 at 3:22 pm)KUSA Wrote: I think if we ever get to the point where forced sterilization is necessary we should start with people that have low IQ levels. Let the smart people have kids and let the stupid ones go extinct.
No more Einsteins or Michelangelos. Low IQs can have high IQ kids and vice versa.
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 8:12 pm
(This post was last modified: July 11, 2015 at 9:51 pm by Excited Penguin.)
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 9:18 pm
(This post was last modified: July 11, 2015 at 9:20 pm by Excited Penguin.)
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 9:28 pm
(July 11, 2015 at 1:47 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 10, 2015 at 11:57 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Excellent analogy. Personal choice versus the effects on others.
I dunno... I think mandatory disease vaccinations for kids entering public school is a far cry from forcibly sterilizing people's bodies and taking away their right to have kids...
Having kids if far more a a responsibility than a right and quite frankly one that many people simply are not up to.
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 9:33 pm
(This post was last modified: July 11, 2015 at 9:36 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(July 11, 2015 at 9:28 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (July 11, 2015 at 1:47 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I dunno... I think mandatory disease vaccinations for kids entering public school is a far cry from forcibly sterilizing people's bodies and taking away their right to have kids...
Having kids if far more a a responsibility than a right and quite frankly one that many people simply are not up to.
It's both.
Edit to add: I agree there are a lot of people who have kids who would be better off not having them. But that doesn't mean I think the government should have the right to forcefully operate on people's bodies and sterilize them against their will. If they wanna have kids, they should still have the right to have them.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 11, 2015 at 9:41 pm
(This post was last modified: July 11, 2015 at 9:45 pm by Excited Penguin.)
(July 11, 2015 at 7:36 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: (July 11, 2015 at 7:18 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: It's only scary if you identify with the unborn ones*, which you shouldn't; they are, by definition, non-existent.
*I mean to say unconceived, though, as far as embryos go, they shouldn't matter either, as they can't really feel anything[as far as I know, that is; please correct me if I'm wrong about embryos. Anyway, my principle is this: don't care about it if it can't feel/know/think/grow(this means to say, if it can't develop without considerably endangering its own species in the process) or do any other thing considered human or even animal].
What I find fearful is the willingness to permit the government to violate privacy in such a profound manner ... my fear has nothing to do with the unborn.
That's all very laudable, Glenn Greenwald, except I never addressed you. But, sigh, I will respond to this vapidity anyway.
I never said I would be willing to let the government violate my privacy in any manner at all. Nor do I think anyone else did. But we can talk about it, if you like. -- Just start a thread on government surveillance. You'll get a load of me talking about that, mind you!
In a perfect world the government wouldn't fuck up... ever ... in any way, shape, or form. That's the only kind of world I'm willing to talk about, at least as far as these kinds of talks go. Keep that in mind.
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