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Tribal loyalty towards your former religion
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Several emotions were in play when the Confederate flag came down in SC recently, I was thinking if Obama came on and led the crowd in America the Beautiful (or Amazing Grace again) I definitely would have started crying.
I've been emotional (more so than usual since the gay marriage ruling) of late . . . The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
 (July 12, 2015 at 10:37 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Several emotions were in play when the Confederate flag came down in SC recently, I was thinking if Obama came on and led the crowd in America the Beautiful (or Amazing Grace again) I definitely would have started crying. From reading your posts, I have a hard time imagining that marriage is of any relevance to you... Anyway, I presume you have been paying attention (this is really for those who have not), I am glad about the marriage equality and about the Confederate flag coming down. Especially the former, as it is not just a symbol. Now, if only we could stop people from being racist and bigoted about homosexuality... "A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." — David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
 (July 12, 2015 at 10:56 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: If only we could be rational and humane without corpses of innocent people littering the ground first. 50 years of peaceful protest didn't seem to do the job.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat?
(July 12, 2015 at 10:56 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:(July 12, 2015 at 10:37 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Several emotions were in play when the Confederate flag came down in SC recently, I was thinking if Obama came on and led the crowd in America the Beautiful (or Amazing Grace again) I definitely would have started crying. Marriage equality is quite important to some close friends of mine. I have realistic expectations as to my unsuitability for the institution. OTOH, If John L. outlives his wife, I'd consider asking him . . . 
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
 RE: Tribal loyalty towards your former religion
July 13, 2015 at 1:54 am
(This post was last modified: July 13, 2015 at 2:03 am by Exian.)
I have a strong reflexive aversion to anything ritualistic. Even as a Christian, the ritualistic side weirded me out. I was much more comfortable with my "personal" cherry picked relationship. And I don't think I'm the only one. Going to church 1) was weird as hell and 2) made ignoring the feelings of inconsistency difficult. I would think, if you weren't brought up in it and told its good, you'd have a natural aversion to all that awkward hype. That's what it reminded me of- forced hype, like you'd see at a company meeting or one of those pyramid scheme conventions.
Although, I do love me some Santa! And all the amazing art; the cathedrals, the paintings, the music, but I would say that's just an appreciation of the art, as those things were never in my religious experience.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay." For context, this is the previous verse: "Hi Jesus" -robvalue 
Former Lutheran. My wife calls them "watered down catholics". I don't play favorites, all forms of theism are ridiculous.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Greek Orthodox till about age 10.
Then told mum and dad it's all bullshit ... Dad agreed. Mum believed the woo ... but was very uneducated ...didn't really understand it anyway...
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear. 
I wasn't hooked up to anything like this, I was born in the final years of the USSR and most of the population who grew up before then thanks to the gosateizm (State Atheism) program even the theists knew little about religion they claimed to follow. Seriously, if you'd have told a Muslim Muhammad flew to Jerusalem on a donkey they'd have probably thought you were taking the piss. The only woo widely understood was the New Age and Psychic rubbish the party allowed to flow into the country during the early 80's to try and show how accepting and open minded it was and to counter the encroachments of the Orthodox Churches but because of the propaganda films most thought it was bullshit and something to laugh at. Moving to Western Europe later with religious stuff openly displayed or preached was a bit of a culture shock for the younger me.
I can't appreciate ritual at all, theistic or atheistic. I understand the theory of why activities such as a liturgy with all the finery and incense can have such a profound impact upon people, I just don't understand why people can't see past it and see it as smoke and mirrors designed to bring about a psychological shift. I see it in other non-believers I know though, they miss the pageantry, glamour and community. Perhaps it's less tribal loyalty and more nostalgia. I don't doubt tribal loyalty does exist, I've see it with some Cultural Catholics and Orthodox ethnic groups in America like the Irish and Greeks but for most it seems to be more nostalgia than affinity. |
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