Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 11:36 pm
(July 16, 2015 at 11:32 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No, you didn't...
Quote:All I was saying was that I understand why they would think that if they don't believe in a God to assign people those inherent rights.
Again I'll suggest that you have more to do with how people respond to you than your repeated whining would imply.
Right, and if that is what makes sense to me for an atheist to believe, then that is what I would believe if I was an atheist. The 2 are not mutually exclusive. You're trying to accuse me of contradicting myself when I didn't
And quite frankly your antics are getting quite old. I came here for honest discussion, not to be sworn at and picked on by a grown man.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 66329
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 11:37 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2015 at 11:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Im not accusing you of contradicting yourself, sigh. I'm suggesting that you're not being honest -with us, or possibly with yourself-. If you didn't believe in god, you would stop believing that human beings have inherent rights? Is that not what you claimed? I don't think that this is true, understand? However, as I've already said, I'm open to being convinced otherwise if you're determined to do so.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 20476
Threads: 447
Joined: June 16, 2014
Reputation:
111
RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 11:38 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2015 at 11:40 pm by ignoramus.)
What Cath is saying is that without the church telling her stuff, she'd have no idea about:
Morality
Human rights
What is good
Marriage
Public toilet strategies
C'mon Cath.
You're alot smarter than that.
You'd be exactly the same person with or without your religion.
We all know that, the only person who doesn't is you.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
Posts: 66329
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 11:41 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2015 at 11:41 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Meh, I suspect that she knows better -at least- as well as we know better.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 11:44 pm
(July 16, 2015 at 11:38 pm)ignoramus Wrote: What Cath is saying is that without the church telling her stuff, she'd have no idea about:
Morality
Human rights
What is good
Marriage
Public toilet strategies
C'mon Cath.
You're alot smarter than that.
You'd be exactly the same person with or without your religion.
We all know that, the only person who doesn't is you.
That is NOT what I am saying.
Many people here (including JennyA who is the person I was addressing) are saying that there is no such thing as inherent human rights.
ALL I said was that, while I disagree, I too would believe there was no such thing as inherent human rights if I did not believe in God to assign those human rights.
I honestly don't understand why this is getting blown up in my face. I'm basically saying I understand where JennyA is coming from, and would think the same thing if I too did not believe in God.
Trying not to get frustrated here, but this is getting ridiculous.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 66329
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 11:47 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2015 at 11:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If god is all that's required for you to think otherwise, after having -agreed- with Jenny....then I'm willing to bet everything that I own that you would be able to find another justification -equally as compelling to you and easily as valid- as "god". I think that you would continue to believe in (and be an advocate for) human rights, regardless of your status of belief in god.
Who's insulting you here, I have to ask.....is it me, or is it you? Hell, I'm swinging for the fences...on -your- behalf.....but if you're sure..I guess you're sure. Should I concede and say that I agree? That you would suddenly -not- believe that people have a right to life......... just because you woke up an atheist tomorrow morning? Is that who you are?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 9147
Threads: 83
Joined: May 22, 2013
Reputation:
46
RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 11:49 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2015 at 11:51 pm by bennyboy.)
(July 16, 2015 at 9:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well first of all I never said the bible was just "a bunch of fairy tales." 
Second, it's not strange at all. It's a very common amongst Catholics to believe that parts of the bible were not written literally. And I'd say most protestants believe that at least Genesis is not literal. So any passage in the Bible that doesn't conform with your view that God extends certain rights to all people is "not literal?" That's pretty convenient and probably heretical.
Quote:Sorry, I did not see that question.
I wouldn't say God doesn't extend any particular rights to animals. We are still supposed to treat all living things with a certain level of respect. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about animals rights, actually. Are you talking about the fact that animals are not held morally responsible for killing each other or stealing each other's food, etc? Lol.
Except I never used the word "animals." I said "mankind." I guess you assumed what I said, instead of reading what you quoted me saying?
I still have an unanswered question. What, ANYWHERE, leads you to think that God has established rights which all human beings should expect to enjoy, thereby establishing those rights as absolute, and not as purely arbitrary? You say you have this idea. I just want to know where it comes from. Not the Bible, you say? The catechism? Okay, show me.
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 11:59 pm
(July 16, 2015 at 11:49 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (July 16, 2015 at 9:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well first of all I never said the bible was just "a bunch of fairy tales."
Second, it's not strange at all. It's a very common amongst Catholics to believe that parts of the bible were not written literally. And I'd say most protestants believe that at least Genesis is not literal. So any passage in the Bible that doesn't conform with your view that God extends certain rights to all people is "not literal?" That's pretty convenient and probably heretical.
Heretical to who? Surely not to you, since you don't believe it in the first place. 
With that being said, there are a lot of protestants who think the Catholic Church is heretical for not being 100% bible. (sola scriptura)
But I'm not being a heretic against my Catholic faith. As I have explained to you already, as a Catholic, I believe the Church is the pillar of truth, not the bible. Not all Truth can be found in the bible. A lot of it, yes, but not all of it alone. Let me know if there is anything about this that you still don't understand and I'll try to clear it up.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 66329
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: What Human Rights?
July 17, 2015 at 12:02 am
(This post was last modified: July 17, 2015 at 12:03 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Then you'll need a quote from the catechism Cath. Pony up. Own all this "pillar" business?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 5399
Threads: 256
Joined: December 1, 2013
Reputation:
60
RE: What Human Rights?
July 17, 2015 at 12:11 am
(July 16, 2015 at 10:05 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (July 16, 2015 at 10:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Just wanna say I really appreciate the questions you're asking and the things you're saying. This is kind of the discussion I hoped to have with you guys when I created my "why be good" thread. But that did not happen lol. Too many people were focusing too much on my title as Catholic to really have a genuine conversation with me about what they thought. I should have disguised myself as an atheist when I made that thread. 
You should have asked a far less ridiculous question, and you still -ought- to stop blaming every damned thing on your catholicism and the inequity of others. Cath, you say stupid shit....that's why people respond to you the way that they do. Take some fucking responsibility for a change?
I don't want to sideline the discussion but... how was Catholic_Lady's question "Why be good?" (if that's what you're referring to) a ridiculous question? I presume it was meant to highlight the ambiguity of the concept of "good" and inquire into why anyone here feels a moral obligation to adhere and/or impose on others whatever notion of the Good that they possess...?
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
|
