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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 5:33 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 4:54 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 4:33 pm)Esquilax Wrote: What if I told you that the sentiment "I would be okay with, and will in fact entreat, my god to beat the crap out of you, in order to make you agree with me," is vicious and terrible no matter how much doublespeak you inject into it first?
Can I make a suggestion?
I'm not saying that I agree with praying for someone to get cancer in any scenario. I think doing so is wrong, even if it ends up being for the greater good.
Now I'm going to repeat those lines because I'm sure someone will accuse me of it anyway:
I'm not saying that I agree with praying for someone to get cancer in any scenario. I think doing so is wrong, even if it ends up being for the greater good.
With that being said, if you are truly trying to understand where Drich is coming from, you have to look at it through his lenses. What's worse... battling cancer for a limited amount of time, or eternity in torment? He believes that people who do not believe in God go to Hell (a sentiment I also don't share, mind you).
Drich also said it took him getting cancer to find God.
So, since he believes the worst possible thing that can happen to someone is to be in eternal torment, and since he believes that not believing in God will get you there, and since he personally didn't find God until he got cancer, can you at least understand where he is coming from when he says that he would rather someone go through absolutely anything, regardless of how bad it is, if it would mean avoiding the worst thing of all?
I'm really not sure which is worse. Someone praying for people to get cancer or the attempts by others to justify it.
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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 5:35 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 5:33 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 4:54 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Can I make a suggestion?
I'm not saying that I agree with praying for someone to get cancer in any scenario. I think doing so is wrong, even if it ends up being for the greater good.
Now I'm going to repeat those lines because I'm sure someone will accuse me of it anyway:
I'm not saying that I agree with praying for someone to get cancer in any scenario. I think doing so is wrong, even if it ends up being for the greater good.
With that being said, if you are truly trying to understand where Drich is coming from, you have to look at it through his lenses. What's worse... battling cancer for a limited amount of time, or eternity in torment? He believes that people who do not believe in God go to Hell (a sentiment I also don't share, mind you).
Drich also said it took him getting cancer to find God.
So, since he believes the worst possible thing that can happen to someone is to be in eternal torment, and since he believes that not believing in God will get you there, and since he personally didn't find God until he got cancer, can you at least understand where he is coming from when he says that he would rather someone go through absolutely anything, regardless of how bad it is, if it would mean avoiding the worst thing of all?
I'm really not sure which is worse. Someone praying for people to get cancer or the attempts by others to justify it.
Annnnnnd there it is, folks. Took less time than I thought. 
Copy paste:
I'm not saying that I agree with praying for someone to get cancer in any scenario. I think doing so is wrong, even if it ends up being for the greater good.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 5:42 pm
I would never pray for a specific scenario. I would pray for God to reveal himself in any situation. I personally was led to a belief in God after experiencing unspeakable things for 13 years and getting to a point where I wrestled with suicide.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 5:46 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 5:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 5:33 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: I'm really not sure which is worse. Someone praying for people to get cancer or the attempts by others to justify it.
Annnnnnd there it is, folks. Took less time than I thought.
Copy paste:
I'm not saying that I agree with praying for someone to get cancer in any scenario. I think doing so is wrong, even if it ends up being for the greater good.
And then you continued with "but if you look at it from his perspective..." That's called justifying.
For the record, I never claimed you agreed, so you can put that straw man away.
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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 6:00 pm
(This post was last modified: August 9, 2015 at 6:01 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(August 9, 2015 at 5:46 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 5:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Annnnnnd there it is, folks. Took less time than I thought.
Copy paste:
I'm not saying that I agree with praying for someone to get cancer in any scenario. I think doing so is wrong, even if it ends up being for the greater good.
And then you continued with "but if you look at it from his perspective..." That's called justifying.
For the record, I never claimed you agreed, so you can put that straw man away.
I'm not justifying anything. Justifying would mean I'm trying to say it was right. I clearly say I think it's wrong. Twice.
Trying to understand where someone is coming from does not equal agreeing with their stance. I was trying to understand where he was coming from, and offering my perspective to others who seemed to be trying to understand where he was coming from too.
Hm, doesn't justifying a behavior mean you think the behavior is ok?? 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Cl, that is what makes it extra scary. I quote firefly when I say " There is nothing worse then a monster that thinks he's right with God."
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 6:22 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 6:00 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 5:46 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: And then you continued with "but if you look at it from his perspective..." That's called justifying.
For the record, I never claimed you agreed, so you can put that straw man away.
I'm not justifying anything. Justifying would mean I'm trying to say it was right. I clearly say I think it's wrong. Twice.
Trying to understand where someone is coming from does not equal agreeing with their stance. I was trying to understand where he was coming from, and offering my perspective to others who seemed to be trying to understand where he was coming from too.
Hm, doesn't justifying a behavior mean you think the behavior is ok?? (emphasis is mine)
Justifications can just as easily be "his behavior isn't as bad as you think." That is what your post sounded like. "Look guys, when you look at it from his point of view, it's really not that bad." It's especially obvious that you're justifying him when you start using phrases like "What's worse... battling cancer for a limited amount of time, or eternity in torment?" No matter what you say about not justifying him, that right there gives lie to your denial. You are essentially saying that eternity in torment is worse than cancer so it's better to suffer cancer to be saved than not suffer it and be condemned. By extension, it would be very easy to say it's ok to pray for someone to get cancer, as long as you're doing it in the name of gawd\jeebus\holey casper so that they get saved.
If you don't agree with him, that's good. That you justify his position, whether you agree with it or not, is vile.
And, your post said nothing about you trying to see where he was coming from, but directing us to look at where he was coming from. Don't believe me? Go re-read your post.
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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 6:40 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 3:34 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (July 18, 2015 at 2:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: If I understand what you're saying ( if God told me that murder wasn't a sin would I murder, is this the question)? You see when I answered your question before I said I knew God's mind to a point because He had revealed things to me. He revealed He wasn't a liar, nor could He be. God as already stated in the Bible that murder was a sin, for God to say to me murder wasn't a sin would then be a lie. God doesn't lie so He wouldn't tell me murder wasn't a sin, now the old devil might try that trick, however I would know better because Jesus said that those who are His would recognize His voice.
GC
You do know that changing your mind and lying are two completely different things, right?
Not in this instance, but of coarse it will work all the time for those who don't care to lie.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 6:42 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 6:40 pm)Godschild Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 3:34 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: You do know that changing your mind and lying are two completely different things, right?
Not in this instance, but of coarse it will work all the time for those who don't care to lie.
GC
Why not in this instance? Because gawd?
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RE: If God changed his mind
August 9, 2015 at 6:44 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 3:39 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (July 21, 2015 at 1:18 pm)Godschild Wrote: I do not invest my life in hypothetical situations
Yes you do. Gawd can never be more than a hypothetical without evidence of which you have precisely none.
Don't tell me what I do or don't have (what I hear from atheist all the time), I have my evidence through a personal relationship with God, it's not my fault you haven't sought out God.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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