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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
July 24, 2015 at 4:35 am
Quote:I can give you truth all day without showing you love.
What is truth? What is love? (Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more.)
Do we mean these terms in only the most quotidian, prosaic sense, or do we mean something deeper, and possibly considerably more ambiguous?
What about the love of truth?
It's hypothetically possible that I might not be entirely truthful (in a prosaic sense) with someone I love, but can I be truthful at all with someone I don't love, with someone I am entirely indifferent to? Why would I even bother? Are we ever truly indifferent to anyone? Do we want to be? (I don't: I try to love everyone, but some people make the effort quite difficult.)
Is lying about something that's none of someone's business in the first place even a real lie?
Philosophy is questions without answers. Religion is answers that cannot be questioned.
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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
July 24, 2015 at 5:00 am
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2015 at 5:01 am by robvalue.)
I've actually found being truthful led me to what I consider true love, in a roundabout way.
I've never been someone that females naturally gravitate towards, and I've never sought to change that by changing myself. What I mean by that is I don't look at others and say, "Wow, he's getting some attention because of [reasons], I'll try that!" I want someone to like me for me, or not at all. Of course I'm naturally going to change over time, but I wasn't going to do things just to get more attention.
I also discovered, through various relationships, more and more about the truth of myself, and what I can and can't tolerate in a relationship. By the time I met my (now) wife, I had a very clear list of criteria and I put myself out there via online dating with these all totally up front. (None were superficial by the way.) That meant that I wasn't wasting my time, or anyone else's, with people who I knew it wouldn't work out with. Some things I realized I just can't compromise on, and I saw no point being with someone for a year or whatever, then trying to hash out the issue with them. It's not fair on either of us.
I found in my wife exactly what I was looking for, and found love  I'm not saying she is the only person in the world I could have ended up with, I don't believe in that stuff, but I do know I made the right decision being incredibly selective. Some people might have called me petty, arrogant, anything they liked. I didn't care. I'd rather be with the right person for me, or not bother.
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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
July 24, 2015 at 12:25 pm
(July 24, 2015 at 5:00 am)robvalue Wrote: ...
I've never been someone that females naturally gravitate towards, and I've never sought to change that by changing myself. What I mean by that is I don't look at others and say, "Wow, he's getting some attention because of [reasons], I'll try that!" I want someone to like me for me, or not at all. Of course I'm naturally going to change over time, but I wasn't going to do things just to get more attention.
...
I do not think this is applicable to you (far from it), but someone who is disliked by women because he is a total ass should change. Not to please women, but because one should not be a total ass.
So I don't think everyone should exactly follow your example, but I do pretty well agree with what you are saying and think that people should do something quite similar to what you did, if they are wanting to be married or its equivalent. There is not a lot of point in attracting people under false pretenses if one is wanting a permanent relationship, unless one plans on living the lie. Otherwise, when the truth comes out, it will be a problem. It would not be good to be married to someone who regrets the marriage.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
July 24, 2015 at 12:27 pm
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2015 at 12:37 pm by robvalue.)
Oh yeah, I agree. If you realize you're being avoided because you're being a dick, that is different. Of course, you can always learn to improve yourself from the example of others. I was talking more about presenting a false persona and such, or just copying everyone else to try and fit in.
And sure, I wasn't saying everyone should do what I do. It was just my own experience and preferences. I should have made that clearer It happened to tie the truth and love together nicely.
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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
July 24, 2015 at 12:46 pm
This is an excellent question but it's really almost impossible to answer.
Sometimes people lie to people they love, to spare them the pain of knowing a hard truth.
But sometimes people unintentionally hurt the ones they love, by withholding the truth,
albeit it was done with the best of intentions.
On the other hand, I've deeply hurt friends I loved very much,
because I refused to lie to them, even though I knew the truth would hurt them...
because I knew that allowing them to labour under a misapprehension would definitely harm them, in the future.
(even it it cost me their friendship).
Other times, people have disclosed a hurtful truth to someone they loved,
simply because of "honesty being the best policy"
...only to find that their honesty accomplished NOTHING except causing damage and pain,
and withholding the truth might have done NO harm, whatsoever.
I'm inclined to think I'd prefer to have the truth,
but it is also undeniable that I've heard truths I wish I hadn't,
and I wouldn't be any worse off, if I'd remained ignorant.
I can also "live" without love....but I wouldn't be fulfilled.
It would feel like a half-life.
it's like having a Ferrari parked in your driveway but you lost the keys.
You know that the potential for a thrilling ride is there,
but you never get to take it.
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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
July 24, 2015 at 2:46 pm
I find that truth is a necessary part of my existence (integral), love (if received or given) is a side benefit (ancillary).
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
August 4, 2015 at 4:44 pm
Truth and love... I don't believe you ever have to sacrifice one for the other. They are one.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
August 4, 2015 at 5:28 pm
I don't believe "love" was code for nooky. Do you still hold them as equal?
[j/k] Me too.
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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
August 4, 2015 at 5:53 pm
Truth.
I think the black eyed peas said it best:
"The truth is kept secret, its swept under the rug, if you never know truth, then you never know love"
True love does not exist in the absence of judgment, true love only exists in the presence of it. The words “I love you” are meaningful to you only if the person who speaks them truly knows you.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: Truth or Love?.. What Matters to you Most?
August 4, 2015 at 6:09 pm
(August 4, 2015 at 5:53 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: Truth.
I think the black eyed peas said it best:
"The truth is kept secret, its swept under the rug, if you never know truth, then you never know love"
True love does not exist in the absence of judgment, true love only exists in the presence of it. The words “I love you” are meaningful to you only if the person who speaks them truly knows you.
I agree with this, but would say that because of it, the 2 are 1 and the same. 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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