Having read Randy as a lurker for a long while, I think he truly doesn't see what a piss-poor job he's doing. Comparing us to tricking dog's into taking a pill with bacon, well he should know that dealing with atheists is more like herding cats.
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Current time: November 15, 2024, 10:02 am
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Why Christianity?
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RE: Why Christianity?
August 18, 2015 at 7:03 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2015 at 7:04 pm by abaris.)
(August 18, 2015 at 7:54 am)Randy Carson Wrote: I keep hoping for actual interaction... As soon as you decide on being an actual person instead of a quotemining robot, you might just get that. (August 18, 2015 at 8:27 am)Iroscato Wrote: You're impossible to engage with Randy - you are sooo condescending, like you know things that nobody else does - something I see in a lot of Christians that you take to a new level. You're a poster child for why theists can be so damn hard to get along with. Let me get this straight...and I hope others besides you are listening... When I posted a comment saying that based on what I read from him, I think rob might have the potential to become a Christian one day, I was being condescending, right? But when you post a comment saying that based on what you read from me, I'm only doing it to keep myself convinced...but that's NOT condescending. But we're both just speculating about someone we don't know except through this forum... Could you help me to understand why what you're doing is okay, but what I did is not? Thanks in advance. Oh, one other point...you still haven't gotten it into your head that the Bible is not one single book...it is 73 books by 40+ authors over a 1,500-year period. And the NT specifically is 27 different books with the four gospels providing independent, multiple attestation from eyewitnesses, so, yeah, they pretty much are proof of their common material. We also have non-canonical material from non-Christian sources providing additional corroboration...something you have not thought critically about, apparently. (August 16, 2015 at 9:40 am)Randy Carson Wrote: 1. The argument which is unique to Christianity is that Jesus prophesied that he would die and rise from the dead and that this resurrection gives us a reason to believe his claims of divinity. Scholars who have studied the dying and rising gods genre have determined that Jesus is not the copy-cat god; it is the other gods of the middle east that began to claim bodily resurrection in the first and second century AFTER Jesus. IOW, they are the copy-cats - not Jesus.1. You are funny! None that predate Jesus? How about the ancient Near Eastern and Greek deities Baal, Melqart, Adonis, Eshmun, Attis, Tammuz, Asclepius, Orpheus, Krishna, Ra, Osiris, Jesus, Zalmoxis, Dionysus, Odin, Inanna, also known as Ishtar, whose cult dates to 4000 BCE, and Persephone, the central figure of the Eleusinian Mysteries, whose cult may date to 1700 BCE as the unnamed goddess worshiped in Crete. 2. There are an infinite amount of gods. Thats going to take a while to go through! 3. There are no official doctrines for the church of the Flying Spaghetti doctrines. Try again. 4. Maybe, if I have the time. Two forums are a lot to keep up with. RE: Why Christianity?
August 18, 2015 at 7:24 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2015 at 7:33 pm by Randy Carson.)
(August 18, 2015 at 8:27 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:(August 18, 2015 at 7:49 am)Kaninchen Wrote: I think your judgement is a little harsh. If you've been paying attention, you will have noticed that at no time during her membership in this forum (prompted by her truly unfortunate suspension at CAF for the same empty snarkiness we're witnessing here) has kaninchen ever bothered to take one of my posts apart by quoting scholars, scripture, popular articles or any other source she could possibly use to demonstrate the validity of her own position. This is because she has no position. That's not why she's here. Kaninchen's sole purpose for being here is to attack me. Now, this could be argued as violating rules 3 and/or 4 of the forum, but if these rules were to be enforced, half the membership would be banned...beginnning with Minimalist who lives to troll/flame - it's just who he is. But I digress. Kaninchen has no arguments of her own to offer; she will never present an actual defense of her position nor will she counter any material that I post. That would require thought and effort - and a bit of time at the very least. She's just is a snipe - a specialist in the art of the petty verbal attack. An clanging gong with no melody or rhythm. And her pettiness could not be demonstrated more clearly than by the fact that having gotten herself suspended at CAF, she couldn't help following me here to continue her ad hominem attacks. That this reveals her to be a small-minded and vindictive person either didn't occur to her...or she simply didn't care so blinded was she by her own need to spew her surprisingly venom-less bile at me. Women can be like that at times. What Kaninchen has overlooked is that if she take her own Jewish faith seriously, then eventually none of the atheist members of this forum will treat her with any more respect than they do any other serious theist. Catholic_Lady was far more pleasant than Kaninchen will ever know how to be...and look how that turned out. However, this may be the reason why she doesn't bother to defend the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: she doesn't actually believe in him, either. RE: Why Christianity?
August 18, 2015 at 7:24 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2015 at 7:35 pm by Shuffle.)
(August 17, 2015 at 10:25 am)orangebox21 Wrote:No we don't.(August 14, 2015 at 5:01 pm)Shuffle Wrote: Forget all the other denominations and focus on mine. There, I gave you three.We need to finish the below conversation before we can continue. The FSM claims that you are an idiot. I like spaghetti... does that count? (August 18, 2015 at 9:34 am)orangebox21 Wrote: Hey Shuffle, I think we have to consider.....What? Are you just putting that to avoid our previous discussion, which you have already cowardly avoided? (August 18, 2015 at 7:11 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:So, if I put all of the Harry Potter book in one, then there is MAGICALLY proof for Harry Potter? No.(August 18, 2015 at 8:27 am)Iroscato Wrote: You're impossible to engage with Randy - you are sooo condescending, like you know things that nobody else does - something I see in a lot of Christians that you take to a new level. You're a poster child for why theists can be so damn hard to get along with. RE: Why Christianity?
August 18, 2015 at 7:48 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2015 at 7:53 pm by Randy Carson.)
(August 18, 2015 at 7:20 pm)Shuffle Wrote:(August 16, 2015 at 9:40 am)Randy Carson Wrote: 1. The argument which is unique to Christianity is that Jesus prophesied that he would die and rise from the dead and that this resurrection gives us a reason to believe his claims of divinity. Scholars who have studied the dying and rising gods genre have determined that Jesus is not the copy-cat god; it is the other gods of the middle east that began to claim bodily resurrection in the first and second century AFTER Jesus. IOW, they are the copy-cats - not Jesus.1. You are funny! None that predate Jesus? How about the ancient Near Eastern and Greek deities Baal, Melqart, Adonis, Eshmun, Attis, Tammuz, Asclepius, Orpheus, Krishna, Ra, Osiris, Jesus, Zalmoxis, Dionysus, Odin, Inanna, also known as Ishtar, whose cult dates to 4000 BCE, and Persephone, the central figure of the Eleusinian Mysteries, whose cult may date to 1700 BCE as the unnamed goddess worshiped in Crete. This is an old and not uncommon attack on Christianity. Consequently, a lot of scholarship and research has been put into evaluating the validity of the "copy-cat" accusation. The bottom line is that Christians have nothing to fear from those who claim that the disciples simply borrowed ideas from gods that existed prior to Jesus' day. The fact is that while there are a few parallels here and there, there is no ancient god who provided the prototype for Jesus. In point of fact, the claims of dying and rising gods actually appeared in these other religions AFTER Jesus. Gods who died and rose with the seasons or who continued to live on but in another world, etc. are NOT the same as Jesus who died and physically rose to life again ONCE in this world before ascending to heaven. Now, I am well aware of the fact that you may have read books and/or Internet postings that claim the opposite of this, but as Dr. Yamauchi (a legitimate scholar in this area of specialization) has noted, none of these authors have real academic credentials. There are plenty of good books refuting this nonsense which you can read if you are so inclined. Quote:2. There are an infinite amount of gods. Thats going to take a while to go through! Agreed. That's why I proposed that you start with the largest and work your way down the list till you get to something that makes sense to you. Quote:3. There are no official doctrines for the church of the Flying Spaghetti doctrines. Try again. Okay, thanks. What has the FSM actually revealed about itself? I ask because apart from any revelation, the FSM would be a deistic god and not a theistic one because if you don't know that it has interacted with creation, you have to conclude that the silence is intentionally deistic. It also seems reasonable that if we accept that the FSM exists, then it must have certain characteristics that any religion would ascribe to its god(s), and these would form the basis of some theological doctrines however limited they might be. Quote:4. Maybe, if I have the time. Two forums are a lot to keep up with. Believe me, there's not going to be enough substantive material in this forum to keep you occupied. If you're an adult who still laughs at fart jokes, however, you may fit right in. (August 18, 2015 at 8:32 am)Stimbo Wrote:(August 18, 2015 at 7:22 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Are you suggesting that I should post MORE frequently, Steve? I'm sure the other members of the forum will be thrilled to hear you've encouraged me... (August 18, 2015 at 7:48 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: 1. This is an old and not uncommon attack on Christianity. Consequently, a lot of scholarship and research has been put into evaluating the validity of the "copy-cat" accusation. The bottom line is that Christians have nothing to fear from those who claim that the disciples simply borrowed ideas from gods that existed prior to Jesus' day. The fact is that while there are a few parallels here and there, there is no ancient god who provided the prototype for Jesus. In point of fact, the claims of dying and rising gods actually appeared in these other religions AFTER Jesus. Gods who died and rose with the seasons or who continued to live on but in another world, etc. are NOT the same as Jesus who died and physically rose to life again ONCE in this world before ascending to heaven.1. I was not claiming that anyone borrowed anything from anyone. All I was pointing out was that you are wrong when you said no god was ever purported to have resurrected before Jesus. Are you claiming that every single god I mentioned did not supposedly resurrect before Jesus? We can go through each one and see if that is true. 2. I don't need to read anything except the list I posted earlier to know that you are an idiot. 3. Since when did my "sense" make things true? 4. He has revealed many things to me. Would you like me to list a few? 5. I haven't encountered any fart jokes yet, but my eyes are peeled. (August 18, 2015 at 8:34 am)ToriJ Wrote: Answer: None. To which post and question are you responding? Quote:For an argument to hold any significant weight it'd need actual evidence from an unbiased source to support it, and none of them have it. Hardly. EVERYONE is biased; the question is whether you are aware of your bias or not. The authors of the gospels WERE biased, but then, so are the authors of textbooks about biology or the origin of the universe. What matters, Tori, is whether you can recognize the bias (yours and theirs) and sort the facts from the fiction, so to speak. Professional historians do this all the time, and yet, they have no problem with accepting the gospels are historical documents which provide important information about the life of Jesus of Nazareth. Quote:If they did and one day reached the 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that their beliefs are true, then they'd cease being beliefs and would turn into facts. Hmmm...if you were sitting on a jury listening to a murder trial, you might determine in your mind that the evidence presented by the prosecutor had proven the guilt of the accused beyond a reasonable doubt. But would this mean that you knew with absolute certitude that the person on trial had committed the crime? Or would it simply mean that the probability that the defendant was guilty had reached the level of being much more probable than his innocence? Is our understanding of Christianity any different? Aren't we making a decision about what we believe to be more probable than not? Quote:That's why I never understood why Christians try so hard to prove their religion true, it'd ruin all the importance they put in faith. Not only that, but even if they could, that wouldn't convert non-believers. It'd just turn them anti-theists if they weren't already. Not really. We put our faith in God based upon what we know about God. There's nothing wrong with gathering the data and making an informed decision to believe and trust God. Quote:And in case you're wondering, I thought that even when I identified as a Christian. Well, the latter years, anyway. Maybe it's worth taking a second look now that you're older. |
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