People Don't Go to Hell in the Bible

[Jenny A]

It's weird.  The descriptions of death in the OT are rather grey shadow half sleeping land.  It's only in the NT that hell as a place of torment comes up.

Funny that. . .

It's almost like hell was made up to explain Jesus' death.

Oh, yeah. . . wait. .  .

[Brian37]

Heaven and hell are bullshit human invented constructs reflecting the same childish regulatory claims of threats and bribes of santa

[orangebox21]

The Church teaches that all mankind was sentenced to hell to pay for Adam’s sin. This doctrine is both biblically and historically insupportable.

Biblical Viewpoint

It would be interesting to know why this should be when Adam was not sentenced to hell to pay for his own sin.  In Genesis 3:17-19 we are told all the terrible things that will happen to Adam.  Have you ever read this for yourself?  If so, did you notice Adam’s punishment is confined to his physical existence?  In fact, Yahweh says “until you return to dust.” So we are talking here about physical death.  The soul does not return to dust.  The body does and according to the Bible, that is the end of Adam’s punishment.  The word “until” means there’s a time limit. So from where did the Church come in and decide our punishment is to be eternal?

There is a physical punishment noted in Genesis 3:17-19 that does end with physical death.  Does that necessitate there aren't other punishments?  Your own post makes allocation for such punishments when you stated that Adam's body, not his soul returns to the dust.  So you differentiate between the body and the soul but you don't allow for a differentiation in punishment?

So from where did the Church come in and decide our punishment is to be eternal?

New Testament Scripture.

Is it not odd that in the 4,000 years between Adam and Paul, not one biblical writer says a word about anybody going to hell to pay for Adam’s sin?

No one goes to hell for Adam's sin.

Yes, you might say, but what about the rich man and Lazarus?  We see Lazarus going to Abraham’s Bosom and the rich man went to hell. I challenge any Christian to show me one instance of Abraham’s Bosom in the Old Testament.  Again, the Bible is silent about a concept large enough to deserve at least one mention. Just as Abraham’s Bosom is a construct of apocalyptic Judaism, so is the idea of humans going to hell when they die.

Are you suggesting that because the words "Abraham's Bosom" do not appear in the OT therefore hell does not exist?

At this point you might turn to the book of Revelation where we find people being cast into the lake of fire because their names were not written in the book of Life.  You are not supposed to ask yourself why their names were not written there.

Why aren't they written there?  [go back and start reading at verse 11]

The Bible does not say and where the Bible is silent, the Church feels free to add its own interpretation. They tell us it’s because they were unbelievers.  However, since nowhere else in the Bible do we see anyone going to hell for what they did or did not believe, this interpretation lacks credibility.

2 Thessalonians 1:7
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power.

So ask yourself, what is the gospel of Jesus Christ?  Because those who obey it not "shall be punished with....."

[vorlon13]

Torment, everlasting destruction ?


So all the nasty scary anal stuff is real! OK, gotcha!

[Rhondazvous]

The Church teaches that all mankind was sentenced to hell to pay for Adam’s sin. This doctrine is both biblically and historically insupportable.

Biblical Viewpoint

It would be interesting to know why this should be when Adam was not sentenced to hell to pay for his own sin.  In Genesis 3:17-19 we are told all the terrible things that will happen to Adam.  Have you ever read this for yourself?  If so, did you notice Adam’s punishment is confined to his physical existence?  In fact, Yahweh says “until you return to dust.” So we are talking here about physical death.  The soul does not return to dust.  The body does and according to the Bible, that is the end of Adam’s punishment.  The word “until” means there’s a time limit. So from where did the Church come in and decide our punishment is to be eternal?

There is a physical punishment noted in Genesis 3:17-19 that does end with physical death.  Does that necessitate there aren't other punishments?  Your own post makes allocation for such punishments when you stated that Adam's body, not his soul returns to the dust.  So you differentiate between the body and the soul but you don't allow for a differentiation in punishment?

So from where did the Church come in and decide our punishment is to be eternal?

New Testament Scripture.

Is it not odd that in the 4,000 years between Adam and Paul, not one biblical writer says a word about anybody going to hell to pay for Adam’s sin?

No one goes to hell for Adam's sin.

Yes, you might say, but what about the rich man and Lazarus?  We see Lazarus going to Abraham’s Bosom and the rich man went to hell. I challenge any Christian to show me one instance of Abraham’s Bosom in the Old Testament.  Again, the Bible is silent about a concept large enough to deserve at least one mention. Just as Abraham’s Bosom is a construct of apocalyptic Judaism, so is the idea of humans going to hell when they die.

Are you suggesting that because the words "Abraham's Bosom" do not appear in the OT therefore hell does not exist?

At this point you might turn to the book of Revelation where we find people being cast into the lake of fire because their names were not written in the book of Life.  You are not supposed to ask yourself why their names were not written there.

Why aren't they written there?  [go back and start reading at verse 11]

The Bible does not say and where the Bible is silent, the Church feels free to add its own interpretation. They tell us it’s because they were unbelievers.  However, since nowhere else in the Bible do we see anyone going to hell for what they did or did not believe, this interpretation lacks credibility.

2 Thessalonians 1:7
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power.

So ask yourself, what is the gospel of Jesus Christ?  Because those who obey it not "shall be punished with....."

1. Of course the fact that Genesis doesn’t say anything about punishment of the soul does not necessarily mean that you can’t add it if it fits your narrative. The bible tells us what happens to the spirit after the body dies

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I did not write this book so you’re not arguing against me.
2. You say no one goes to hell for Adam’s sin. But that is what the mainstream Church teaches. Are you being contrary just to be contrary or do you come from some persuasion other than evangelical Christianity?
3. Neither Abraham’s Bosom nor Hell as a place of torment exist in the Old Testament. They are both constructs of apocalyptic Judaism. This is not just a change in dispensation but a total restructuring of divine reality and cosmology. This cannot be permitted with a god who supposedly never changes.
4. The verse you quote from 2 Thessalonians says nothing about the Book of Life.
5. What is the gospel of Christ? The Church says we have to confess Jesus as lord. But Jesus said everybody who calls him lord will not enter his kingdom.

None of your arguments can be supported without adding something to the scriptures that isn’t there. Read the last verses of Revelations to see what will be added to you.

[orangebox21]

1. Of course the fact that Genesis doesn’t say anything about punishment of the soul does not necessarily mean that you can’t add it if it fits your narrative.  The bible tells us what happens to the spirit after the body dies

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

And what does God then do with the spirit?
And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27)

I did not write this book so you’re not arguing against me.

Then with whom am I having this conversation???  

2. You say no one goes to hell for Adam’s sin. But that is what the mainstream Church teaches. Are you being contrary just to be contrary or do you come from some persuasion other than evangelical Christianity?

Only Adam could potentially go to hell for Adam's sin.  Scripturally it would appear that Adam was covered by the blood of Christ and did not go to hell.  Therefore, no one is going to hell for Adam's sin.

3. Neither Abraham’s Bosom nor Hell as a place of torment exist in the Old Testament. They are both constructs of apocalyptic Judaism. This is not just a change in dispensation but a total restructuring of divine reality and cosmology. This cannot be permitted with a god who supposedly never changes.

I repeat the previous question, is your argument then that because the word's "Abraham's Bosom" don't appear in the OT hell doesn't exist?

4. The verse you quote from 2 Thessalonians says nothing about the Book of Life.

It wasn't meant to.  You wrote that:

However, since nowhere else in the Bible do we see anyone going to hell for what they did or did not believe, this interpretation lacks credibility."

You wrote "nowhere else," as in no place in the Bible, do we see anyone going to hell for what they did or did not believe.  Yet 2 Thessalonians 1:7 states "when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power."  

5. What is the gospel of Christ? The Church says we have to confess Jesus as lord. But Jesus said everybody who calls him lord will not enter his kingdom.

1 Corinthians 15:1:-4  "Moreover brethren I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."

None of your arguments can be supported without adding something to the scriptures that isn’t there. Read the last verses of Revelations to see what will be added to you.

You didn't address Revelation 20:11-15:
"And I saw a great white throne and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away.  and there was found no place for them.   And I saw the dead small and great, stand before God and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works.  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.   This is the second death.  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Jesus will be sitting on a great white throne.  Books are opened of two categories, one the book of life, and two the books that are an account of the works of each man.  At the great white throne judgment, there exist only people being judged by their works.  

And what do we learn about people seeking to be judged by their works?  Galatians 3:10-11 says:
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:  for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:  for, the just shall live by faith."

The logical conclusion here is that no one's [who seeks to be justified by works and is therefore at the great white throne judgment] name will be found in the book of life.

[Godscreated]

I have heard different takes on hell. What goes on down there. whether or not it's eternal. It's as debatable as anything else in the Abrahamic faiths.

The mainstream view is eternal fiery torture, so that's what I usually rail against.

 It is eternal, Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. The verses preceding this tell who will be going into eternal punishment."  Hell is a place of darkness, no hope, and no escape from that hopelessness, no one can possibly understand what this will be like, so God gave man an explanation he could understand. This is my belief and I can't say I'm correct in this belief, but for me it fits with all God's justice and love. Of coarse there's more to this than my simple explanation. I do not want to derail this thread with what hell is.

GC

[Godscreated]

I have heard different takes on hell. What goes on down there. whether or not it's eternal. It's as debatable as anything else in the Abrahamic faiths.

The mainstream view is eternal fiery torture, so that's what I usually rail against.

Revelation 20:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


People who do not believe in eternal torture, do not believe in what is stated in the Bible.

I can agree with the principle of what you stated, just not the word torture. People who believe in making a point should use the words from said book. Torment! and it doesn't ever say that God is the one delivering the torment. Like I said in above post I do not want to derail this thread over what hell is. This would be for a different thread, I just wanted to mention a couple things here. Thanks

GC

[Wyrd of Gawd]

The Church teaches that all mankind was sentenced to hell to pay for Adam’s sin. This doctrine is both biblically and historically insupportable.

Biblical Viewpoint

It would be interesting to know why this should be when Adam was not sentenced to hell to pay for his own sin.  In Genesis 3:17-19 we are told all the terrible things that will happen to Adam.  Have you ever read this for yourself?  If so, did you notice Adam’s punishment is confined to his physical existence?  In fact, Yahweh says “until you return to dust.” So we are talking here about physical death. The soul does not return to dust. The body does and according to the Bible, that is the end of Adam’s punishment.  The word “until” means there’s a time limit. So from where did the Church come in and decide our punishment is to be eternal?

Is it not odd that in the 4,000 years between Adam and Paul, not one biblical writer says a word about anybody going to hell to pay for Adam’s sin? You’d think that for something so cataclysmic that it affects the entire human race at least one biblical writer would find it worth mentioning. But none did. Hell was not a place where anybody went in the Old Testament. You might mention Psalm 16:10

For thou shall not leave my soul in hades/sheol. Not let your holy one see corruption.

There is no rationale for translating the Hebrew word “Lish·'O·Vl” as “Hell.” Lish·'O·Vl is the underworld or place of the dead. In classical Judaism, this was the permanent abode of the dead.  Elijah and one other prophet notwithstanding, resurrection was not something experienced by the general populace.

Yes, you might say, but what about the rich man and Lazarus?  We see Lazarus going to Abraham’s Bosom and the rich man went to hell. I challenge any Christian to show me one instance of Abraham’s Bosom in the Old Testament.  Again, the Bible is silent about a concept large enough to deserve at least one mention. Just as Abraham’s Bosom is a construct of apocalyptic Judaism, so is the idea of humans going to hell when they die.

The Psalms were written during the Babylonian captivity. So we see a pagan influence on Jewish theology even before apocalyptic Judaism took hold in the second century B.C.E.

At this point you might turn to the book of Revelation where we find people being cast into the lake of fire because their names were not written in the book of Life.  You are not supposed to ask yourself why their names were not written there.  The Bible does not say and where the Bible is silent, the Church feels free to add its own interpretation. They tell us it’s because they were unbelievers.  However, since nowhere else in the Bible do we see anyone going to hell for what they did or did not believe, this interpretation lacks credibility. The only people the Bible definitely says will have their names taken out of the book of Life are those who take things out of that book and those who add things to that book will have the plaques of that book added to them. So the vast majority of Christian leaders are already in trouble.

Historical Viewpoint

I’ve mentioned apocalyptic Judaism several times. Jesus was an apocalyptic Jew. After the Babylonian destruction and captivity, Jews began to move away from the teachings of the prophets. The prophets taught that suffering was punishment for not keeping God’s covenant. They taught that if the people turned back to God he would heal them and bless them. Yet ever the centuries it was becoming clear that this was not happening. Apocalyptic Judaism was an alternative to the teachings of the prophets. It taught that God had an enemy and it was this enemy who caused Yahweh’s people to suffer when they tried to follow God. According to the prophets, the “soul that sinneth it shall die.”  Yet the people saw over and over that the wicked and sinners lived long lives. They did not see the wicked being punished in this life, so apocalyptic Judaism offered an after-life during which justice and retribution would be exacted.  Thus, Satan emerges as the arch enemy of God and Hell becomes the destiny of the wicked.

The Church needs hell. Fear is a very strong emotion. It can make people accept what they otherwise would reject. It can make people believe in things that they know are not true. It will take time to free yourself from fears that have lodged in your mind for years and decades. It will be even more difficult if you are surrounded by people who reinforce that fear.  As you can see from the above there is no basis for this fear. The last question is, do you think you will find favor with God by believing things you know are not true?

You have to remember that Christianity took a lot of its basic beliefs from Zoroastrianism.  The heaven and hell thing is a prime example.

In the Zoroastrian system the soul is left on Earth for three days and three nights after the body dies.  It then moves into the spiritual realm where an angel decides if it should go to heaven or to hell until Judgment Day.  On Judgment Day God does the resurrection trick and decides if the soul stays in heaven or gets sent to eternal purgatory.  http://www.hinduwebsite.com/zoroastrianism/beliefs.asp

The New Testament Jewish Pharisees were influenced by the Persian (Zoroastrian) beliefs of resurrection, angels, demons.  The old school Jewish Sadducees called all of that stuff BS.  The Jesus character was a Pharisee because he believed in what the Pharisees believed in.   Acts 23:7-9  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=MSG

[Chad32]

I have heard different takes on hell. What goes on down there. whether or not it's eternal. It's as debatable as anything else in the Abrahamic faiths.

The mainstream view is eternal fiery torture, so that's what I usually rail against.

 It is eternal, Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. The verses preceding this tell who will be going into eternal punishment."  Hell is a place of darkness, no hope, and no escape from that hopelessness, no one can possibly understand what this will be like, so God gave man an explanation he could understand. This is my belief and I can't say I'm correct in this belief, but for me it fits with all God's justice and love. Of coarse there's more to this than my simple explanation. I do not want to derail this thread with what hell is.

GC

And someone also quote a passage saying it's eternal destruction. Implying that your soul gets destroyed, never to return. Like I said, it's debatable. Depending on who you ask on this site, you'll get different answers. Either way it's just the carrot and stick ploy. Bribery (heaven), or blackmail (hell). All dependent on who you know, not what you do.