Atheist who refused Christian counselor lost her sons

[Fake Messiah]

Holly Salzman of Albuquerque, New Mexico went to court to resolve coparenting issues with her ex-husband. The judge ordered Salzman to attend 10 sessions with a counselor named Mary Pepper. When Salzman went to the first session, Pepper began praying out loud, Salzman objected but Pepper told her, "well this is what I do." When Salzman attended the next session, Pepper prayed out loud again and spoke at length about God. Salzman asked the court to let her see another counselor, but the court never responded. Salzman stopped seeing Pepper and the court took her sons away.

http://boingboing.net/2015/09/15/non-rel...efuse.html

[Minimalist]

Where is the ACLU when you need it?

[Crossless2.0]

Where is the ACLU when you need it?

I'll be shocked if the cavalry isn't just over the next hill, galloping like mad. 

It's not clear what caused the woman in question to be ordered to attend counseling, but the outcome is simply unacceptable.  This is yet another example of how the separation of church and state is eroded to the point of meaninglessness in certain locales.  I neither believe that the judge was unaware of the religious nature of the "counseling" that was taking place, nor do I believe that there wasn't one secular counselor in that jurisdiction to whom this woman could have been referred.

But these local abuses of church/state separation aren't unusual.  Though obviously not nearly as significant as the article linked, I (to my shame) had a DUI back in '92.  When I went to court, the judge ordered me to attend some number of AA meetings.  He was absolutely flummoxed when I requested that I be ordered to attend classes/meetings run by a secular organization.  It was as if it never occurred to him that there might be people in his courtroom who weren't on board with "higher powers" of any sort.  The judge assured me that AA wasn't strictly religious, but I maintained that, as an atheist, I couldn't in good conscience attend a group meeting in which people pretended that "higher power" was not code for "God".  It turned out that there simply wasn't such an organization in my immediate area. 

To his credit, the judge revised my punishment to a fine, a bit of community service, and a handful of hours in an traffic class that had no god-talk in its curriculum -- little more than a cursory look at the bad consequences that can arise from alcohol abuse and the dangers of drunk driving.  But I've sometimes wondered how many other people in my circumstances, in that jurisdiction, got railroaded into AA for want of another option.

For the record, I have no beef with AA, per se.  It's done a lot of good for a lot of people, and I tip my hat to it for that.  But it wasn't/isn't for me.

[robvalue]

This is disgusting. Clear breach of separation of church and state.

As I always say, what if the counsellor started talking about healing through the Flying Spaghetti Monster? How long would they be allowed to practice?

This shit needs coming down on hard. Even if the counsellor happens to be Christian, if they're funded by the state, they need to keep it to themselves and do their job. My current counsellor is a Buddhist but hasn't let that affect my treatment one bit.

[vorlon13]

Where is the ACLU when you need it?

I'll be shocked if the cavalry isn't just over the next hill, galloping like mad. 

It's not clear what caused the woman in question to be ordered to attend counseling, but the outcome is simply unacceptable.  This is yet another example of how the separation of church and state is eroded to the point of meaninglessness in certain locales.  I neither believe that the judge was unaware of the religious nature of the "counseling" that was taking place, nor do I believe that there wasn't one secular counselor in that jurisdiction to whom this woman could have been referred.

But these local abuses of church/state separation aren't unusual.  Though obviously not nearly as significant as the article linked, I (to my shame) had a DUI back in '92.  When I went to court, the judge ordered me to attend some number of AA meetings.  He was absolutely flummoxed when I requested that I be ordered to attend classes/meetings run by a secular organization.  It was as if it never occurred to him that there might be people in his courtroom who weren't on board with "higher powers" of any sort.  The judge assured me that AA wasn't strictly religious, but I maintained that, as an atheist, I couldn't in good conscience attend a group meeting in which people pretended that "higher power" was not code for "God".  It turned out that there simply wasn't such an organization in my immediate area. 

To his credit, the judge revised my punishment to a fine, a bit of community service, and a handful of hours in an traffic class that had no god-talk in its curriculum -- little more than a cursory look at the bad consequences that can arise from alcohol abuse and the dangers of drunk driving.  But I've sometimes wondered how many other people in my circumstances, in that jurisdiction, got railroaded into AA for want of another option.

For the record, I have no beef with AA, per se.  It's done a lot of good for a lot of people, and I tip my hat to it for that.  But it wasn't/isn't for me.

I've been annoyed in Omaha when judges give defendants a choice of jail or the Salvation Army treatment center. In '92 I can't recall if RR was still holding meetings or not.  Apparently no one in the court system there had heard of it.

[Chad32]

Someone needs to go after the judge, and these counselors. I realize that atheism is still a minority, but what if it was someone of a different faith? You're telling me these people don't know how to do their jobs without inclusing Yahweh in it?

[robvalue]

Feel free to jump in Christians... just cut and paste this:

"This is disgusting and is a clear violation of separation of church and state."

Non-poisoned virtual candy for the first person who does what I say. Do it! Now!

If you think it isn't, then consider how you'd feel getting sent to a Satanist counselor who was invoking dark magic during your sessions.