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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 1, 2015 at 2:25 pm
(October 1, 2015 at 1:52 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Better than "Because Jesus" I suppose.
Are you sure? 
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 1, 2015 at 5:27 pm
(September 30, 2015 at 11:57 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: (September 30, 2015 at 10:58 pm)Godschild Wrote:
Look, GC, I'm trying really hard not to laugh at you, and to take you seriously, here. But you're making it tough on me.
You are seriously arguing that, despite thousands of archaeologists who do enter their countries, they somehow test to make sure they're not Christians before they grant the permits?
You are seriously arguing that they're so worried about Israel being a modern nation that they're willing to deny that there ever was an historical Israel?!
You are seriously arguing that even though the story of Moses is in the Qur'an, they hate the Israelis and Christians so much that they'd rather hide proof of the Qur'an being true, in order to hide the proof of the other two being true as well? Even though it backs up all three of them at the same time!?!
What is the American Research Center in Egypt (ARCE), then, which just made this major discovery a few months ago?
Why did Egypt allow Christian researchers from Spain to find this image of Jesus instead of covering it up?
And so on. I could go on for hours listing all the Christian (and neutral/academic) groups doing research in Muslim countries.
Your dude is a charlatan. He plays to your ignorance about how Muslim countries work in order to make himself famous, make it seem like he has the truth but that there's a conspiracy against him. But it doesn't hold up when you shine the light on the hypothesis!
Wake up!
Laugh all you want, it's not going to bother me, now that said to something a little more serious.
The image could be of anyone and is likely not of Jesus, if it is it doesn't prove a thing, I can show people thousands of images called Jesus. I think that should settle that.
There are people like Moses in the Quran, mostly to lead back to Abraham to validate them as a people and connected to Allah whoever he may be. I've never heard a Muslim defend these people except for Abraham because he's their link to Allah. The OT part of the Quran has no relevance to them, it is the teachings of Muhammad they follow. Christianity is outlawed in Iran and Saudi Arabia and Christians are persecuted in most of the Middle East, so yeah they do not want Christians nosing around sites that could damage their standing. Egypt is still in denial that they had black Pharaohs, their own national history museum doesn't even list pharaohs for that particular (25th) dynasty, so yeah I think they want to keep things as they are, they've shown that.
He's not my dude, he's a man looking to show the stories of the Bible are true and I watch to see what comes up, just as I do with non-Christian sites. Yes I'm awake, it's that I see things differently than you do that causes you to believe I'm asleep. We have different views on the way people think, we both have evidence for our views, you see it from a secular point of view and I see it from a spiritual world view and the Muslim see it from a spiritual point of view in opinion.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 1, 2015 at 5:29 pm
(October 1, 2015 at 1:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: (September 30, 2015 at 11:19 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Doesn't God frown on evidence? I mean his whole thing is "Have faith in me or you will go to hell."
You can't have faith in something thats proven. Doesn't that mean the Christian archaeologists are basically trying to condemn everyone to hell?
No, it means Christians want to bring evidence to the truths of the Bible so those who doubt or do not believe might.
GC
Right but if you bring evidence to those who doubt then they're not believing through faith.
So they're hellbound. Their fate is sealed once you present evidence.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 1, 2015 at 6:24 pm
(October 1, 2015 at 5:27 pm)Godschild Wrote: Laugh all you want, it's not going to bother me, now that said to something a little more serious.
The image could be of anyone and is likely not of Jesus, if it is it doesn't prove a thing, I can show people thousands of images called Jesus. I think that should settle that.
There are people like Moses in the Quran, mostly to lead back to Abraham to validate them as a people and connected to Allah whoever he may be. I've never heard a Muslim defend these people except for Abraham because he's their link to Allah. The OT part of the Quran has no relevance to them, it is the teachings of Muhammad they follow. Christianity is outlawed in Iran and Saudi Arabia and Christians are persecuted in most of the Middle East, so yeah they do not want Christians nosing around sites that could damage their standing. Egypt is still in denial that they had black Pharaohs, their own national history museum doesn't even list pharaohs for that particular (25th) dynasty, so yeah I think they want to keep things as they are, they've shown that.
He's not my dude, he's a man looking to show the stories of the Bible are true and I watch to see what comes up, just as I do with non-Christian sites. Yes I'm awake, it's that I see things differently than you do that causes you to believe I'm asleep. We have different views on the way people think, we both have evidence for our views, you see it from a secular point of view and I see it from a spiritual world view and the Muslim see it from a spiritual point of view in opinion.
GC
You're seriously denying that Muslims believe in the parts of the Qur'an that tell the story of Moses and Noah? On a national scale, and to the point that they would exclude researchers from going there to look for those two guys? I mean, geez, just think of the number of "find Noah's Ark" expeditions that have gone to Mount Ararat, and that is on the border of two Muslim countries, requiring permits from both!
There are not "people like Moses" in the Qur'an, the story of Moses and the Pharaoh is in the Qur'an. So is Noah and the Ark. Period. I posted the links; you can read for yourself! I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm asking you to read for yourself. You're basically claiming that Muslims don't believe in the Qur'an... which is crazy-talk. Tell you what, if you go onto a Muslim forum and get the Muslims there to tell you they don't believe in the stories of Moses and Noah, as presented in the Qur'an, I will withdraw my statement here and apologize openly.
As for the Egyptian archaeological finding, I agree it's probably not Jesus as he really was, but it may be an early rendering by followers of Jesus, which would establish there were Coptic Christians (and Gnostic Christians) in Egypt from the beginning... and don't you think that's the kind of thing they'd want to cover up, if they were as paranoid as you suggest about allowing Bible-proving researchers into their lands? Christianity is outlawed for citizens of many Middle Eastern nations, but Muslim culture is also big into the proper ways to treat guests, and they do allow scholars to come in and study whatever they want, especially archaeologists.
You're grasping at straws to hold onto a conspiracy theory pushed by a guy whom top Biblical archaeologists call equivalent to a "reporter" for the National Enquirer. Sorry, but that dog won't hunt. That's why I called him "your boy", because you're defending this fraud simply because he claims to be repressed In the Name of the Lord, despite all evidence to the contrary. When I think of all the people I know in the oil industry who've worked all throughout the MidEast (I'm from Louisiana, and most of my relatives and friends work for oil companies), of the biologists I've known who've studied ecosystems/species/fossils in those countries, and the archaeologists whose accounts I've read of their findings from those lands, I have to wonder how deep your paranoia can possibly go!
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 8, 2015 at 5:58 pm
(September 23, 2015 at 1:14 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Yep, can't save millions from death of starvation. Too busy giving hope.
theres enough food for everyone in the world we just don't do a good job in distributing it
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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 8, 2015 at 8:25 pm
(October 8, 2015 at 5:58 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: (September 23, 2015 at 1:14 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Yep, can't save millions from death of starvation. Too busy giving hope.
theres enough food for everyone in the world we just don't do a good job in distributing it
Yet God doesn't even butt in to help. A silent god is no different from a nonexistent one.
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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 8, 2015 at 8:34 pm
(October 8, 2015 at 8:25 pm)Irrational Wrote: (October 8, 2015 at 5:58 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: theres enough food for everyone in the world we just don't do a good job in distributing it
Yet God doesn't even butt in to help. A silent god is no different from a nonexistent one.
he provided the food. I think if he forced us to share it would interfere with our free will.
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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 8, 2015 at 8:42 pm
(October 8, 2015 at 8:34 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: (October 8, 2015 at 8:25 pm)Irrational Wrote: Yet God doesn't even butt in to help. A silent god is no different from a nonexistent one.
he provided the food. I think if he forced us to share it would interfere with our free will.
That particular use of the free will argument almost made sense. And then I applied my knowledge of history and realized that there have been many times in human history in which there not only was not enough food for humanity, but no means of distributing it even if people really knew about all the starving people and really wanted to help. Our current surplus is the result of human technology and it's recent.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 9, 2015 at 12:00 am
(October 8, 2015 at 8:34 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: (October 8, 2015 at 8:25 pm)Irrational Wrote: Yet God doesn't even butt in to help. A silent god is no different from a nonexistent one.
he provided the food. I think if he forced us to share it would interfere with our free will.
Free will? That's more important than providing the poor with food?
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RE: Dear Christians: What does your god actually do?
October 9, 2015 at 12:04 am
(October 9, 2015 at 12:00 am)Irrational Wrote: (October 8, 2015 at 8:34 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: he provided the food. I think if he forced us to share it would interfere with our free will.
Free will? That's more important than providing the poor with food?
It's not God's fault we can't figure out a way to feed everyone.
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