Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?

[John V]

The unfulfilled prophecies will be fulfilled in the end, as described in the OT and in Revelation.

Been a very long time since they were first written.

Yes, and thanks to God for that. We wouldn't have been born if he had come back a century ago.

[jenny1972]

God is the "father" of us all thats why in the Lords prayer it is said " OUR father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name ... "

No, he's not the father of all. Jesus told some people that the devil was their father. Maybe you should actually read the Bible, instead of c&p'ing a bunch of quotes from somewhere else.

jesus said God is the Father of some and the devil is Father to some

[John V]

No, he's not the father of all. Jesus told some people that the devil was their father. Maybe you should actually read the Bible, instead of c&p'ing a bunch of quotes from somewhere else.

jesus said God is the Father of some and the devil is Father to some

Yep.

[jenny1972]

messiah did not mean "God" for the jews . jews were not expecting the messiah to be God

Feel free to support that. I gave passages supporting my position. You give nothing to support your own, or to refute mine.

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

How can Yahushua be deity if he declares his heavenly Father is greater than he himself? And what of this text?

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Messiah; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Messiah is the Almighty. (1Corinthians 11:3, "Christ" is replaced with "Messiah" and "God" is replaced with "the Almighty," where it is appropriate throughout this presentation.)

Please notice the progression of authority given in this passage: The woman is subject to the man, the man is subject to Messiah, and the Messiah is himself subject to his heavenly Father. This same point is made in 1 Corinthians 15:28, and this text even describes the Millennial reign of Messiah perfectly:

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Messiah shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Messiah the firstfruits; afterward they that are Messiah’s at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to the Almighty, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that the Almighty may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:21-28)

The Messiah Yahushua will subdue all things and place them under his authority and power during the Millennial reign. After this, when everything has been subdued, he will then transfer all of his authority to his heavenly Father and will himself be “subject unto him that put all things under him.” Not only does this indicate that the Messiah is a distinct person from our heavenly Father, but that he is subordinate to him. The Messiah is not the Almighty and he is not equal to the Almighty in any way. Such teachings are not based upon Scripture nor the Messianic writings. So now, ask yourselves the question: "Who is it that has come preaching another Messiah?"

When we ask the Jews themselves as to what the reasons are that they cannot accept Yahushua (Jesus) as Messiah, we get many different answers. However, there is one answer which is almost always listed as the number one reason for their inability to accept him as Messiah—the question of deity. Please note what is said about this in the Wikipedia article Judaism’s View of Jesus:

While Judaism has no special or particular view of Jesus, and very few texts in Judaism directly refer to or take note of Jesus, Judaism takes a strong stand against many views expressed by Christian theology. One of the most important Jewish principles of faith is the belief in one God and one God only with no partnership of any kind,[1] and belief in Jesus as deity, part of a deity, son of God, or Christ, is incompatible with Judaism.[2]

Christianity is stated to have actually separated from Judaism because of this very problem—the issue of “another Messiah.” At the very fundamental core of the problem is the divergence between the Jewish and the Greek understanding of deity (“God”). To the pagan Greek culture (which is based upon the philosophy of Plato and others), there were many “gods.” In Judaism, their faith is strictly monotheistic—there is but one supreme Elohim (“Mighty One”), and He is Yahweh. It was by proclaiming Yahushua to in-fact be deity by a certain group of Messianic believers near the end of the first century that the final separation between these two groups took place.

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God is the "father" of us all thats why in the Lords prayer it is said " OUR father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name ... "

John 20:16-18 :
16 Jesus saith unto her,Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

Wouldn't that be a consequence of trinity? Do you believe in trinity?

jesus said " my Father and your Father " " my God and your God " indicating that he was no different than anyone else .... unless many many people are apart of the trinity somehow

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And yet,according to you, Isaiah 9 calls Jesus Everlasting Father.

Yep, and Jesus said that if you've seen him, you've seen the Father. It's a bit of a paradox. Depending opn the circumstances, Jesus emphasized either his oneness with the Father or his distinction as the Son.

Matthew chapter 16:
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, "Whom do men say that I the son of man am?" 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets

[John V]

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

How can Yahushua be deity if he declares his heavenly Father is greater than he himself? And what of this text?

First, I believe the forum rules require you to give a link or some form of attribution. You appear to have C&P'd from here:
http://www.itsaboutthattime.net/Revealin...essiah.htm

Second, going outside is fine for ideas, but you should present the arguments in your own words. I could just C&P a Christian page on the topic, and is that really getting us anywhere?

Anyway, Jesus can be deity despite declaring the Father as greater than himself because he voluntarily humbled himself to a lower position. I have been sticking to what Jesus said, but since in your next point you open up the epistles, that makes it easier:

Phil 2
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Messiah; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Messiah is the Almighty. (1Corinthians 11:3, "Christ" is replaced with "Messiah" and "God" is replaced with "the Almighty," where it is appropriate throughout this presentation.)

Please notice the progression of authority given in this passage: The woman is subject to the man, the man is subject to Messiah, and the Messiah is himself subject to his heavenly Father. This same point is made in 1 Corinthians 15:28, and this text even describes the Millennial reign of Messiah perfectly:

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Messiah shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Messiah the firstfruits; afterward they that are Messiah’s at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to the Almighty, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that the Almighty may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:21-28)

Again, see above that Jesus voluntarily humbled himself. Paul does make very clear statements of Jesus' divinity, such as:

Col 2
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

Any more you'll have to argue yourself. I'm not going to the bother when you're just copying and pasting.

[John V]

Matthew chapter 16:
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, "Whom do men say that I the son of man am?" 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets

LOL - do you even know the significance of "son of man"?

[jenny1972]

jesus said God is the Father of some and the devil is Father to some

Yep.

so is God your Father (are you the son of God) or is the devil your Father (are you the son of the devil) ?

[John V]

Yep.

so is God your Father (are you the son of God) or is the devil your Father (are you the son of the devil) ?

God's my father. Before you say "Aha," you should note that the Bible says we're adopted sons, while Jesus is begotten.

[John V]

Daniel 7

“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

[houseofcantor]

Son of Man is merely another term for prophet, see Zeke.