Biblical Christianity 101, a study of the book of Romans

[TheRocketSurgeon]

The Proclamations of Drich: It might look like Jesus at first glance, but it's really just an asshole.

[abaris]

But you could argue that there's more value coming from a dog's ass than a preachers mouth.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Christianity = belief in a magic Jewish zombie.

1 Corinthians 15:12-17.  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...;MEV;VOICE

Answer the question in verse 13 = Do the dead return to life?

Paul was speaking to those who believed traditional jewish beliefs on Resurection. The Saducees taught and believed that their were no resurection. Paul is dispelling this idea with a logical train of thought. It starts with the miricals the Apstoles could do. They attributed those works directly to God. Now if they were not of God then God would not support their ministry with the signs and wonders that He did. That means God also supported their doctrinal ministry as well, which included the resurection. Paul is setting up a retorical question, when he asks this question.

Understandably, 'proof' for them' is not 'proof' for us.

So if you can not wrap your mind around the possiblity of a biblical resurrection because you have tainted it with a disbelief in magic and you assoceiate that word only with magic, then lets take a fresh look.

Let's look at just definations/principles of what is being discussed, and apply them to terms you know and can understand.

So ask yourself is it possible for anyone to die (in any way shape or form) and be brought back to life? Well, yes of course they can. we have all sorts of proceedures and technology that help us do this. (Again remember we are looking to see if it is even physically possible on any scale, or do we cease to exist when clinical death occurs.)

Now take your answer and apply it to the defination of 'resurrection' which is to be brought back to life from the dead, and you have your answer is resurrection possible? Yes it is possible, it is a proven fact. You just have to get past your own limitations you place on God, and what is being discussed.

Once an animal life form is dead, it's dead.  There's no resurrection.  Imagine if the last chicken you ate came back to life as you was eating it.  If an animal is resuscitated then it wasn't dead.  The next time you go to a funeral resurrect the corpse.  You are supposed to be an adult.  Stop believing in zombies and ghosts.  This is the modern world.  Your beliefs belong with dead cave men.  The more you spout them the more you appear to be bat shit crazy.

[John V]

Nice dig, with the "easy to read" version. Personally, I prefer the NASB, though I've been known to dip into the New King James Version for certain poetic elements (like Ecclesiastes or Psalms), because I love the prose of the KJV but not so much the thees and thous.

Now that we have that out of the way, I have a serious issue with your citation of the final verses of Romans 1, which I consider among the most despicable parts of the New Testament.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

You see, we know this is why so many of your kind come here with all their preformed misconceptions about atheists, and all the horrible things they say to us here. But are you really suggesting that we are (unlike Christians, or at least significantly more than them)
murderers?
deceitful?
slanderers?
gossips?
wicked?
greedy?
untrustworthy?
unloving?
unmerciful?

Considering that god looks to the mind, and not just actions, yes, we're all guilty of all of those things. Remember that the world was flooded because people's thoughts were full of evil; the law prohibits coveting; and Jesus equated insults with murder and lust with adultery.

Considering actions, we probably see all but murder on this board.

Deceitful, untrustworthy - people make assertions they know they can't support, and withhold information that might benefit an opponent

Gossips - any time a Christian does something bad in the news, it's posted here

Greedy - people spend time and money on pleasures that could go to those who are less fortunate

Unloving, unmerciful - Christians are frequently treated without love and mercy

Wicked - see all of the above

So, yes, we're all of those things. We just lower the bar to a point that most of us can get over, and then pretend that we're good people.

[The Grand Nudger]

Thought crimes, to sweeten the pot...I guess?  If thinking about something makes me a criminal - to anyone...your god, earthly authorities....then I'm comfortable with being a criminal.   Low bar indeed.....for the title of god.

[GrandizerII]

We just lower the bar to a point that most of us can get over, and then pretend that we're good people.

That's a low view of people. So you're a bad person is what you're saying?

[John V]

We just lower the bar to a point that most of us can get over, and then pretend that we're good people.

That's a low view of people. So you're a bad person is what you're saying?

Of course.

[GrandizerII]

That's a low view of people. So you're a bad person is what you're saying?

Of course.

Ok, just making sure you applied this belief to yourself before anyone else.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Wow.

The Bible: justifying being an open bigot since the Iron Age.
The Bible: for when regular crimes aren't enough and you need to invent some Thought Crimes.
The Bible: how immoral people feel sanctified and convinced that others are as bad as they are.

"Deceitful, untrustworthy - people make assertions they know they can't support, and withhold information that might benefit an opponent"

I don't make assertions I know I can't support. I would never withhold information that might benefit a debate opponent. I pride myself on personal integrity and intellectual honesty. It deeply offends me that there's a whole religion out there that teaches I am untrustworthy by nature, simply because I am not a believer.

Gossips - any time a Christian does something bad in the news, it's posted here

Is that gossip or news? Because gossip seems to me to be speculating about things a person is alleged to have done, while talking about what they actually do is simply "the news". We don't do it to paint Christians in a bad light, but to point out hypocrisy from the people who so love to tell us how their beliefs make them morally superior to us.

Greedy - people spend time and money on pleasures that could go to those who are less fortunate

Are you really advocating for communism, here? Because that's how you get communism.

Unloving, unmerciful - Christians are frequently treated without love and mercy

Bullshit. Assholes are frequently treated without love and mercy. Christians are not mistreated on this forum simply for being Christian, but for making hostile, bigoted, or incorrect (often magical!) arguments that they will not support other than to say we can't disprove the magic is real (even when we can). You will find that if you don't come here treating us like enemies, you will not be treated like an enemy. A significant chunk of the board are good, close friends and/or family with Christians, even married to them. I am engaged to be married to a Christian, and I love her (all of her, including her views about the world) like my own life. Far from being unloving and unmerciful, I am among the most loving and merciful people I know, as are many of the atheists I've known in my adult life (became non-Christian at 17), so that entire passage in Romans 1 is nothing but libelous contempt for "the enemy". You come here with contempt already in your heart.

And you wonder why we treat you with contempt in return, once you show your true colors!

[Drich]

Drich, a lot of us used to have that kind of understanding as former Christians. Do you really think this is news to many of us what you're saying?

I believe those who were christians have a view of Christianity that has been filtered through their specific brand of the christian faith. Most 'brands' (Including alot of the more popular ones) do not use the bible as their only source of divine revelation. In short that means, just because you worship as a 'christian' does not mean you have any true idea of what the bible says.

My 5 years spent on a Christian forum is proof of this. More over the book of romans is a source of much confusion and even anger from those who 'source divine revelation' from other places because it flies in the face of what those 'christians' come to understand as God's will, and what it means to be christian.

So that is why I am going through this book because it is the one place in the bible where the whole gospel is completely laid out. it explains every aspect of the first steps in your walk with God. meaning it describes what and how and what a biblical Christian is to expect.