Biblical Christianity 101, a study of the book of Romans

[Minimalist]

It's more than "legend" though.  There is a paper trail of the warrants issued by various judges.

Xtians would love to have the paper trail for any of their horseshit that we have for Smith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smi...ice_system

[Redbeard The Pink]

Ok... my question is if you are looking at the information at hand, or appealing to what we do not know.  I admit, that this is the first I have looked at the beginning of the early Mormon church.  But from the information I have gathered, it appears that he was arrested because he ordered the destruction of a printing press (which spoke against Mormons), and a vigilante group mobbed the prison in which he was held, and killed Joseph Smith.In Missouri and Illinois, from the information available, I think that a case can be made, that there was a lot of political tension that at least partially contributed.

Although sometimes exaggerated, I do not think that scholars disagree, that Christians where persecuted for simply being Christian.  This can be seen in Paul's accounts of his own actions  before his encounter on the road to Damascus, and other places throughout the new testament.  Pliny the younger also admits to as much in his letter to Trajan. He even asks how to deal with those who recant their beliefs.

Saying that the evidence at hand leaves a significant degree of uncertainty as to exactly how or why Paul died, so Paul died a martyr because he was a prophet is an argument from ignorance.


Saying that the evidence at hand leaves a significant degree of uncertainty as to exactly how or why Paul died, so Paul did not die a martyr is an argument from ignorance.


Saying that the evidence at hand leaves a significant degree of uncertainty as to exactly how or why Paul died, so we don't really know how or why Paul died, and we may never know is NOT an argument from ignorance, and from what I can tell, that's what's being said to you.

[Huggy Bear]

Ok... my question is if you are looking at the information at hand, or appealing to what we do not know.  I admit, that this is the first I have looked at the beginning of the early Mormon church.  But from the information I have gathered, it appears that he was arrested because he ordered the destruction of a printing press (which spoke against Mormons), and a vigilante group mobbed the prison in which he was held, and killed Joseph Smith.In Missouri and Illinois, from the information available, I think that a case can be made, that there was a lot of political tension that at least partially contributed.

Although sometimes exaggerated, I do not think that scholars disagree, that Christians where persecuted for simply being Christian.  This can be seen in Paul's accounts of his own actions  before his encounter on the road to Damascus, and other places throughout the new testament.  Pliny the younger also admits to as much in his letter to Trajan. He even asks how to deal with those who recant their beliefs.

Saying that the evidence at hand leaves a significant degree of uncertainty as to exactly how or why Paul died, so Paul died a martyr because he was a prophet is an argument from ignorance.


Saying that the evidence at hand leaves a significant degree of uncertainty as to exactly how or why Paul died, so Paul did not die a martyr is an argument from ignorance.


Saying that the evidence at hand leaves a significant degree of uncertainty as to exactly how or why Paul died, so we don't really know how or why Paul died, and we may never know is NOT an argument from ignorance, and from what I can tell, that's what's being said to you.

Are you saying there's no evidence to show how Paul died?

[Minimalist]

There is no evidence to show how "paul" died.

[abaris]

Are you saying there's no evidence to show how Paul died?

As far as history is concerned, there isn't.

Present your's, if you so sure about evidence. I'm sure, historians would like to have a look.

[Minimalist]

There is no evidence to show how "paul" died.

[abaris]

There is no evidence to show how "paul" died.

Of course not. But there's that verse about Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[Minimalist]

Here, Ab.  You'll love this:

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/sauldie.html

This douche gives the correct answer to the question:  How did the Apostle Paul die?

The Bible does not tell us the exact time or manner of the apostle Paul's death, and secular history has yet to provide us with any definitive information.

But because there are so many bible-thumping shitheads walking around unsupervised he can't leave it at that and runs off into Fantasyland.

However, evidence highly suggests the apostle Paul's death occurred after his fifth missionary journey ended in 67 A.D. Paul was likely beheaded by the Romans, under Emperor Nero, sometime around May or June of 68 A.D.

There is not a shred of evidence.  Just later church "tradition" which is not worth a fart in a hurricane.

[GrandizerII]

Don't you see that similar things could be said of Paul? The difference is that we have a severe lack of information to go by when assessing the reliability of what a 2000-year-old man said about his own experiences.

With Joseph Smith, we have a much clearer picture.

Are you not just making an appeal to ignorance???

Are you saying that what I'm saying here is not logical at all?????? (see, I can make multiple question marks, too)

[GrandizerII]

This can be seen in Paul's accounts of his own actions  before his encounter on the road to Damascus, and other places throughout the new testament.  Pliny the younger also admits to as much in his letter to Trajan. He even asks how to deal with those who recant their beliefs.

Please ... Paul could have been dishonest about his experiences ... people can lie ... stop being naive.