Biblical Christianity 101, a study of the book of Romans

[GrandizerII]

Romans 1:
21 because, having known God they did not glorify [Him] as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened,
22 professing to be wise, they were made fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of fowls, and of quadrupeds, and of reptiles.

This is pretty much referring to unbelievers.

One can not believe and not be Evil. Paul is speaking about EVIL Men

You should pay attention more to the context of Romans 1, rather than trying to reconcile Romans with Acts, because the context is clear that those who worship other gods (i.e. unbelievers, typically Gentile pagans who have not converted to Christianity) are doing evil because, according to Romans, God's existence is made clear to all people, so they (the unbelievers) have no excuse of committing the evil of suppressing the truth and going for other gods.

[robvalue]

He used to make it clear. He'd stick his ass right in peoples' faces.

Now he's gone all shy on us.

[Minimalist]

A little Rapture might be nice,

How about just smiting the fucker?

[GrandizerII]

He used to make it clear. He'd stick his ass right in peoples' faces.

Now he's gone all shy on us.

He's even more introverted than I am now.

In the past, he may have been too neurotic to stay quiet, lol.

[Drich]

One can not believe and not be Evil. Paul is speaking about EVIL Men

You should pay attention more to the context of Romans 1, rather than trying to reconcile Romans with Acts, because the context is clear that those who worship other gods (i.e. unbelievers, typically Gentile pagans who have not converted to Christianity) are doing evil because, according to Romans, God's existence is made clear to all people, so they (the unbelievers) have no excuse of committing the evil of suppressing the truth and going for other gods.

See the thing is, romans 1 is not the only thing Paul says about unbelievers. In chapter 11 of Romans Paul even says their are 'unbelievers' who will enter Heaven. So again, Sport not all unbelievers are EVIL MEN!!!

Uh, uh... did you just learn something new about Biblical Christianity that conflicts with most religious versions? That it's (christian) NOT a title we get to award or bestow upon ourselves by following certain acts of religion. That it is completely up to God who is and who is not Christian/Saved.

Again that is why You and your expert fails. Because you both wrongly assume that sinner, unbeliever, and Evil are all the same thing. Now before you go the way of the other 1/2 of team rocket and claim I am trying to split hairs know that the 'split' here is not mine but Paul's in both the book of Romans and Acts.

[GrandizerII]

You should pay attention more to the context of Romans 1, rather than trying to reconcile Romans with Acts, because the context is clear that those who worship other gods (i.e. unbelievers, typically Gentile pagans who have not converted to Christianity) are doing evil because, according to Romans, God's existence is made clear to all people, so they (the unbelievers) have no excuse of committing the evil of suppressing the truth and going for other gods.

See the thing is, romans 1 is not the only thing Paul says about unbelievers. In chapter 11 of Romans Paul even says their are 'unbelievers' who will enter Heaven. So again, Sport not all unbelievers are EVIL MEN!!!

You may have "studied" Koine Greek, but your reading comprehension is terrible. All unbelievers are evil according to Romans 1. Look at Romans 1:19:

BECAUSE that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest [it] to them

That is the reason for them being evil. Their unbelief. That is their unrighteousness.

Romans 11 says no such thing. Now you're being a heretic, lol.

[Minimalist]

http://www.egodeath.com/TheFabricatedPaul.htm

I here summarize some of Detering's conclusions.  Page numbers are for the English .pdf file.
Detering's book aims to provide a better explanation for NT Christian origins than the usual views regarding Paul.   On page 50, Detering summarizes Loman's proposal in 1881:
"Christianity in its origin was nothing else than a Jewish-Messianic movement ... the figure of Jesus had never existed, but represented a symbolization and personification of thoughts that could only make full headway in the second century. A gnostic messianic community later appeared alongside the Jewish-Christian messianic community. In the period between 70 and 135 CE the two groups opposed one another with bitter animosity.
"Only in the middle of the second century did they achieve a reconciliation, in which the gnostic community had Paul as its representative and the Jewish-Christian community had Peter. The result of this process of reconciliation was the formation of the Roman Catholic Church. ... the letters of Paul are all inauthentic and represent the product of the newly-believing, gnostic-messianic community."
The Catholic church didn't create the NT books, but redacted them strategically to unite the Petrine Jewish-Christians camp with the Pauline Marcionites (Gentile Christian) camp, resulting in a durable church system.  Paul was a reworked Simon the Magician.  Simon/Paul had leprosy.  Simon/Paul taught gnostic-type anti-cosmos transcendence of and freedom from 'the law' through grace -- such transcendence being 'lawlessness'.

I think Detering is far closer to reality than your silly, pompous, holy horseshit, drippy.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Drich, I don't understand why you persist in this hair-splitting. Paul's formula is pretty clear:

Sin nature + can't help sinning + heard the Truth of Gawd™ - accepting The Truth™ = Evil.

You're ignoring Paul's idea of redemptive theology, in which the ONLY difference between giving in to our evil impulses is to follow Jesus. Just because SOME are MORE evil-inclined than others doesn't mean he made a SPECIAL category for the former. You're telling us if we squint and look at it sideways we'll agree with your personal inside knowledge of Paul and not with the many Biblical experts from outside your clique.

As my drill instructior once advised me, "Sometimes, when everyone else is marching on the wrong foot, you should consider the possibility that it's really just you."

[Drich]

You may have "studied" Koine Greek, but your reading comprehension is terrible. All unbelievers are evil according to Romans 1. Look at Romans 1:19:
BECAUSE that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest [it] to them

So you know why people quote the king james? Aside from blind tradition it is quoted because it repersents an obscure dialect. a dialect that is close enough to modern english that most can intrepret and change any way they want. So what is the cure? One we can go to a common word translation like the easy to read or goto the greek:
18 God shows his anger from heaven against all the evil and wrong things that people do. Their evil lives hide the truth they have. 19 This makes God angry because they have been shown what he is like. Yes, God has made it clear to them.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb/rom/1/1/s_1047001

An Honest person would ask does he mean ALL people who do not believe? or is it the Only people he has identified so far (Evil People.) Paul again has only reference Evil people. He later (end of the chapter) identifies the qualities that make them evil. He never mentions 'unbelief' as being a quality of evil. Why? because in Chapter 10 He charges the Jews with unbelief, and again says their will be those jews who do not believe (The remnant) that will enter Heaven.

That is the reason for them being evil. Their unbelief. That is their unrighteousness.

maybe according to you but Paul says:
28 People did not think it was important to have a true knowledge of God.So God left them and allowed them to have their own worthless thinking. And so they do what they should not do.

This is the reason people are evil.
The following is a list of the evil things people who are described in verse

28 have on their hearts/been given over to. (Can "morally" justify)
29 They are filled with every kind of sin, evil, greed, and hatred. They are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, lying, and thinking the worst things about each other. They gossip 30 and say evil things about each other. They hate God. They are rude, proud, and brag about themselves. They invent ways of doing evil. They don’t obey their parents, 31 they are foolish, they don’t keep their promises, and they show no kindness or mercy to others. 32 They know God’s law says that anyone who lives like that should die. But they not only continue to do these things themselves, but they also encourage others who do them.

Romans 11 says no such thing. Now you're being a heretic, lol.

Tisk tisk, no trying to trick me into giving you a private lesson on chapter 11. I will explain in greater detail when we all get their together.

in the meanwhile try reading chapter 10 and 11 together and with a translation that does not need it's own translation.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=ERV

[GrandizerII]

You may have "studied" Koine Greek, but your reading comprehension is terrible. All unbelievers are evil according to Romans 1. Look at Romans 1:19:
BECAUSE that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest [it] to them

So you know why people quote the king james? Aside from blind tradition it is quoted because it repersents an obscure dialect. a dialect that is close enough to modern english that most can intrepret and change any way they want. So what is the cure? One we can go to a common word translation like the easy to read or goto the greek:
18 God shows his anger from heaven against all the evil and wrong things that people do. Their evil lives hide the truth they have. 19 This makes God angry because they have been shown what he is like. Yes, God has made it clear to them.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb/rom/1/1/s_1047001

The unrighteousness is in their unbelief.

God's existence is made clear through what can be seen (his creation) so it's not a special revelation to only a subset of unbelievers, dear Drich. It's a revelation available to all through perception. This is the point you keep ignoring. So even the Athenians in Acts 17 were supposed to have been aware of God (according to Romans 1). If you disagree, then you disagree with Romans 1:20, ok?

They suppress the truth through not following God and going for other gods instead. Again, this is made clear in Romans 1. And this is exactly what the Athenians in Acts 17 did.

Your problem is that you WANT there not to be a contradiction between Acts 17 and Romans 1, so you come up with some sneaky maneuvers to get the passages to reconcile but by doing so you pretty much have to disregard the context of Romans 1. That is not honest, Drich. Quite the contrary.