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Biblical Christianity 101, a study of the book of Romans
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You know, does Paul give David/Psalms a thumbs up ...is he a big fan?
(October 28, 2015 at 9:58 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:(October 28, 2015 at 9:45 am)Drich Wrote: It was commonly believed that the messiah was deliver the jewish people from the Roman authority, and at the time (After jesus before the destruction of the temple) tensions between jews and the romans were high. The romans sought any means to keep the jews under control, and the new christians (who were still considered to be jews by much of rome) were (leadership not the followers at that time) were targets for the Jews and the romans. Which is why Paul was imprisioned so many times beaten and stoned, and ultimatly imprisoned by rome/nero and executed/beheaded. Actually no we don't. There is some evidence that christians were blamed after the fire of Rome, but not enough to be conclusive, but there is little to no evidence of persecution of christians because of their religion until Diocletian, which didn't happen until 303 CE. Most of what is reported as "christian persecution" before then is propaganda invented by the church to a) make the church look bigger than it was and b) give the believers strength through inventing a persecution complex.
Urbs Antiqua Fuit Studiisque Asperrima Belli
Home (November 17, 2015 at 6:07 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote:(October 28, 2015 at 9:58 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: I have no complaints about the majority of your reply except for this bit, and only because it's a red herring that doesn't address the original question. You're quite right about the tension between the Romans and the Jews, but that still doesn't make Paul's statements in the epistles, circa 45 CE, automatically or inherently dangerous to him, let alone a "death sentence". We certainly have evidence that, 20 years later, the Christians were being persecuted in places like Rome, on the orders of Emperor Nero who sought to blame their minority for his own actions as a political distraction... many, many Christians were executed in that decade by Nero's orders. So are you one of 'those people' who also say the Germans did not try to genocidaly wipe out all Jews as well? Here ya go sport, the following artical points to a dozen or so indivisual points of reference that include, historian's personal accounts of witnessing the slaughter, Period correct edicts from governors, letters from regionts seeking authorization for death to Christians, From a declare from Nero Himself citing Christians for the burning of Rome, all the way to the actual document Constintine wrote Demanding the persecution stop, thus putting an end to 300 years of persecution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chris...man_Empire Just because someone says something you want to hear, doesn't mean it is true. If you don't like wiki, then look up the actual source material the artical references.. They all point to the same thing. (that you are beyond wrong/foolish for just believing atheist propaganda without vetting the source material facts of their charge. which ironically enough is what you blindly accuse us of doing.) (November 17, 2015 at 4:21 pm)Hmmm? Wrote: You know, does Paul give David/Psalms a thumbs up ...is he a big fan? The passage does not reference the state of mind of Paul, it simply shows that Paul pulled 7/8 of his quote "none are righteous" from the Psalms (not all of which were written by David btw.)
So we ready for 6?
(here is where it starts to get good) (November 18, 2015 at 9:46 am)Drich Wrote:(November 17, 2015 at 4:21 pm)Hmmm? Wrote: You know, does Paul give David/Psalms a thumbs up ...is he a big fan? (November 17, 2015 at 12:54 pm)Drich Wrote: Which of those Psalms weren't written by David? Quote: We have been made right with God because of our faith. So we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through our faith, Christ has brought us into that blessing of God’s grace that we now enjoy. And we are very happy because of the hope we have of sharing God’s glory. 3 And we are also happy with the troubles we have. Why are we happy with troubles? Because we know that these troubles make us more patient. 4 And this patience is proof that we are strong. And this proof gives us hope. 5 And this hope will never disappoint us. We know this because God has poured out his love to fill our hearts through the Holy Spirit he gave us. This is a rehash of the gospel that Paul has preached up to this point, but showing a different contrast, so as to give a deeper perspective in what Jesus did and what that actually meant. Quote:12 Sin came into the world because of what one man did. And with sin came death. So this is why all people must die—because all people have sinned. 13 Sin was in the world before the Law of Moses. But God does not consider people guilty of sin if there is no law. 14 But from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, everyone had to die. Adam died because he sinned by not obeying God’s command. But even those who did not sin that same way had to die. One new thing to point out is many people take the 'death' of verse 12 to mean physical death, but that would not be consistent with the 'Life' provided by the works of Christ. The death sin brings is Spiritual. Yes we all physically die, but what Paul is communicating here is Sin Brings on a Spiritual death, and Jesus offers atonement from that death and offers eternal life. So again in one man (Adam) through not obeying God/sin Spiritual death was brought to all of us. And again through one man (Jesus) we are brought back to life if we want eternal life. Not as an act/reward of our works, but because we believe/want to love God. (November 18, 2015 at 10:22 am)Hmmm? Wrote:(November 18, 2015 at 9:46 am)Drich Wrote: The passage does not reference the state of mind of Paul, it simply shows that Paul pulled 7/8 of his quote "none are righteous" from the Psalms (not all of which were written by David btw.) I've got an old book at home that lists them, but not with me. I googled this list.. These look right (it lists the psalms David did write. that is a much shorter list than the ones he did not write.) http://www.lwbc.co.uk/davids_psalms.htm |
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