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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:55 am
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 2:43 am by Athene.)
(November 1, 2015 at 1:35 am)Delicate Wrote: (November 1, 2015 at 1:25 am)Thena323 Wrote: Right. 'Cause if they had adequate knowledge, they'd believe wouldn't they?
And you can't fathom that, because your deep abiding for God and Jesus is just so powerful, so life-affirming, so juicy.
You're priceless.
I'm priceless, I'm juicy, but I can also tell you're more than just a moissanite.
But that's not the point. The point is you're great at fighting strawmen. Because I don't think if they had adequate knowledge they'd believe.
Rather, I believe if they had adequate knowledge, their rejection of theism would be intelligent.
As it is, the average atheist on this forum sound like a toddler throwing tantrums.
You can't make utterly dishonest statements, change the terms and conditions of your argument numerous times within a discussion and then accuse people of straw manning you. It doesn't work that way.
But that's not the point.
What would an intelligent rejection of theism sound like, in your opinion? Are you claiming that there could be any argument that you would deem good enough?
Give one example. Just one.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:59 am
I don't need masses of detail, just one sentence explaining what you think the thrust of the article is.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 2:02 am
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 2:04 am by TheRocketSurgeon.
Edit Reason: Punctuation!!
)
I like how he tells me (and all the rest of you just like me) that I don't understand Christianity, that I wasn't "really" a Christian, etc.
Like I don't know exactly what I am. I'd match my theology up with anyone. No, that's not an invitation; I don't think you are an honest enough person to bring the necessary degree of dual-sided evaluation it would take to truly discuss any issue without letting your biases cloud your judgment. You'd be fired from your first debate squad in a week.
Yes, I know you have already said that it is we who have the bias, and we who don't understand... but the fact is that, whether or not we had the details of the faith "correct", we have been where you are, thinking and talking as you do.
We know your point of view. Do you really know ours? I have never seen an example of the bad arguments to which you always refer; I only ever see quibbling details, or you just plain ignoring when people get your ideologies just right while you seek for anyone who says anything wrong. I believe that objective evaluation would find that you are the one approaching each element of this place and the discussions had here with a filter that changes the way you take in and process our information.
I think, in short, that you are seeing phantoms where none exist, or at least allowing your observer bias to "count the hits and ignore the misses" so you think that the tiny fraction of people here are in fact the majority. Many, many here know as much as you or anyone you know, about the history and scholarship of religion, especially Christianity. I am not claiming to be among them, by far, and yet I know I have never seen you state one thing that I do not already know about Christianity, barring minor doctrinal differences.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 2:11 am
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 2:20 am by jenny1972.)
well it looks like you have more than a few atheists nibbling on your bait delicate reel em in your begging for a serious debate and discussion about christianity heres your chance dont back down now you made the challenge and want serious debate on christianity they say they know christianity and are serious about taking you up on your challenge
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 2:23 am
(November 1, 2015 at 2:11 am)jenny1972 Wrote: well it looks like you have more than a few atheists nibbling on your bait delicate reel em in your begging for a serious debate and discussion about christianity heres your chance dont back down now you made the challenge and want serious debate on christianity they say they know christianity and are serious about taking you up on your challenge
![[Image: image.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=memecrunch.com%2Fmeme%2F1GKFH%2Finstigator%2Fimage.png)
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 2:32 am
From the perspective of the believer, the atheists criticizing religion all *have* to be intellectually bankrupt, because the alternative is that they might have a point. Since the belief is right ™, no further demonstration or proof is needed.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 2:34 am
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 3:02 am by robvalue.)
I'd like to repeat my position, in case there is any misunderstanding:
I don't care if Christianity, or any religion, is "true". It makes no difference to me. If I found out they were true, I'd be a non-religious theist and carry on just as I do now.
I'm not interested in talking to people who refuse to discuss without also throwing shit everywhere. That goes for theists and atheists, I have some atheists on my ignore list too. I'm not telling anyone else how to interact with other people here, that's their business as long as it's within the rules. I'm just explaining what I expect when people talk to me. If you can't make your points without talking trash, then that's really your problem. I'm not obliged to reply to everything.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 3:07 am
Okay, so I read the article and apparently it's an attack on "new atheism" (i.e. Dawkins and a few others). It points out a couple errors they made in some books and uses this to (repeatedly) insist that therefore the new atheists haven't sufficiently researched the claims that they are trying to debunk. I haven't read anything by Dawkins, so I really can't comment on that but one thing I can comment on is the fact that the thread title is misleading.
By using other atheist's critiques of Dawkins as support for his claims, the author incidentally implies that some atheists are intelligent enough to be taken seriously (or why else would we care what they thought about Dawkins?) The author never actually attacks atheism itself, only a handful of loud-mouthed "new atheists" he perceives as ignorant. He also apparently thinks that preachers denying evolution are equally ignorant, so take that as you will.
This article does nothing to expose the intellectual bankruptcy of atheists, and only a bit to show some errors of thinking in a select few. I guess if I were to summarize the point of the article in a single sentence it would be this: Do your research before you criticize religion, or you'll look like an idiot like Dawkins.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 3:13 am
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 3:23 am by robvalue.)
Cool 
I'm still waiting to hear what else the article is meant to say, besides this. No atheists are obliged to agree with everything Dawkins or any other atheist says. I'm sure everyone has said some stupid things at one time or another, whether or not the article is correctly criticising any particular argument here.
Even if it could be shown that everything Dawkins and other "new atheists" say is wrong, again, so what? They don't speak for other atheists. I've never heard them claim that they do, either.
You can't make blanket statements about atheists. Not if you want to be taken seriously, anyway. If you're not making blanket statements, then you're just highlighting some problems that some atheists have, or mistakes they make. So what? I would never claim all atheists are correct or moral all the time. Far from it. And I'm not responsible for anything they do or say, unless I explicitly give my support to it.
If Dawkins or whoever says something I think is stupid, I'll call it stupid.
Am I supposed to be policing these new atheists or something?
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 4:48 am
Theists think Atheism works like their religion - if you show that the atheist pope is fallible, you have won. Fools!
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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