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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 9:34 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 9:47 pm by abaris.)
(November 1, 2015 at 8:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Want a name? Try Andrew Carnegie.
Who was a lowlife piece of shit, hiring Pinkerton thugs to shoot up striking workers at one of his factories. I take Al Capone over Carnegie anytime.
(November 1, 2015 at 8:54 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Andrew Carnegie and Bill Gates, both atheists and major philanthropists, well beyond what would be necessary to get tax exemptions.
Carnegie wasn't. Look above. That he donated some of his dosh later on doesn't revive the ones he ordered to be killed.
Quote:The Homestead Strike, also known as the Homestead Steel Strike, was an industrial lockout and strike which began on June 30, 1892, culminating in a battle between strikers and private security agents on July 6, 1892.[3] The battle was one of the most serious disputes in U.S. labor history, third behind the Ludlow Massacre and the Battle of Blair Mountain. The dispute occurred at the Homestead Steel Works in the Pittsburgh area town of Homestead, Pennsylvania, between the Amalgamated Association of Iron and Steel Workers (the AA) and the Carnegie Steel Company. The final result was a major defeat for the union and a setback for their efforts to unionize steelworkers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 11:20 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 11:22 pm by Alex K.)
I have a bit of a problem with adoring the philantropy of the super rich - in my eyes, they have been given their wealth by society unjustly, because nothing a single human can do can justify it. It is only at the grace of society as a whole that they can exist, and whatever money they give to good causes they have first illegitimately taken away from democratic control anyways, because they could successfully exploit loopholes in a broken system.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 11:39 pm
(November 1, 2015 at 11:20 pm)Quantum Wrote: I have a bit of a problem with adoring the philantropy of the super rich - in my eyes, they have been given their wealth by society unjustly, because nothing a single human can do can justify it. It is only at the grace of society as a whole that they can exist, and whatever money they give to good causes they have first illegitimately taken away from democratic control anyways, because they could successfully exploit loopholes in a broken system.
No, I don't take issue with that. If someone has an idea or a bestselling product, I have no problem with that. It doesn't hurt society in itself. Only if this person in some way harms society, you're spot on. To take the lazy route, something like Bill Gates vs Dick Cheney, with Cheney walking over corpses and sending people to their doom to make his fortune.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 2, 2015 at 5:53 am
It's important to first define exactly what "good" is. Often, an atheist and a theist will disagree.
Is "good" acting in the interests of the wellbeing and happiness of life on Earth?
Or is "good" doing what God tells you to do?
One definition needs to be agreed on for the purposes of any conversation. Just assuming they are the same thing is fundamentally flawed. That is a claim that needs to be demonstrated if it to be used.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 2, 2015 at 9:25 am
(November 1, 2015 at 11:39 pm)abaris Wrote: No, I don't take issue with that. If someone has an idea or a bestselling product, I have no problem with that. It doesn't hurt society in itself. Only if this person in some way harms society, you're spot on. To take the lazy route, something like Bill Gates vs Dick Cheney, with Cheney walking over corpses and sending people to their doom to make his fortune.
OK. So, what name would you put forward?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 2, 2015 at 9:38 am
(November 2, 2015 at 9:25 am)mh.brewer Wrote: OK. So, what name would you put forward?
Why does it have to be a single person? Aren't organisations, not driven by religion enough?
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 2, 2015 at 3:34 pm
(November 2, 2015 at 9:38 am)abaris Wrote: (November 2, 2015 at 9:25 am)mh.brewer Wrote: OK. So, what name would you put forward?
Why does it have to be a single person? Aren't organisations, not driven by religion enough?
The OP was asking for a person.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 2, 2015 at 4:39 pm
(November 2, 2015 at 3:34 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: The OP was asking for a person.
I'm very sure there are individuals. But as soon as a person if flying over the public radar, it means, they are in the public eye. And that includes light as well as shadow, since they had to do certain somethings to get into that position. And these things, if they include making a fortune, usually aren't pretty.
But I'm very sure that Jane or John Doe exist. The organisations prove that.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 2, 2015 at 4:54 pm
OK. We'll settle with Al Capone and agree to disagree.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 2, 2015 at 5:21 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2015 at 5:22 pm by Mystic.)
Some of the most unselfish and nicest people I know don't believe in God. So I don't buy this argument.
However, to me personally, just as relationship to parents is highly more important, God has a special right, he deserves something more, not only due to his exalted status, but because we belong to him in a way more then how things belong to us or our children belong to us, and related to us. He is the closest of all beings. And that is why humans over all know they ought to value God more then anything else.
Our relationship to God is the most important thing, how we should respect, awe, love, and desire towards Him. How we care about his pleasure.
Being good for sake of others I find is easy. Being good furthermore because of God's face in everything and for his pleasure, and out of love for Him, that takes more sincerity.
And it's sincerity towards God is what the ranks upon ranks differ from. Also seeing the divine light in creation is important, and not to alienate your love of God from people.
I think love is special and sacred, and when applied to the most beloved of all beings, it can have magical transformation.
That said Atheists often are unselfish and love their fellow man. However if they have hatred towards the Sacred being, their actions might be futile. Not all Atheists have a problem with God but some do.
May God heal our hearts.
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