Christian argued that everything must have a creator

[Alex K]

I thought of a better way to state my position about weird "gods" ordering me to dance around like a bitch, or else I'll be punished:

I don't negotiate with terrorists.

But you hopefully are interested in whether *there is a terrorist*?

[Joods]

Your argument doesn't really matter to us God believers because part of believing in God is believing that He is a super natural being who, unlike us, has always existed.

Ahh yes.. this. While it's okay for many christers to take this stance, they practically insist on shoving those beliefs down our throats so much that they actually believe the following things: 

The US Constitution was based on christian principles.  I dare a christian to actually cite any single part of the Constitution that verifies this to be true. 
That christianity has a rightful place within the US government. Wrong. We have separation of church and state for a reason.
That it is okay to discriminate against anyone who is not a christian. 
That as soon as their views are challenged, many christians scream "persecution!!"

This sort of thinking is a huge part of what is wrong with this country.

[Alex K]

Your argument doesn't really matter to us God believers because part of believing in God is believing that He is a super natural being who, unlike us, has always existed.

So He had literally an infinite time to think about what to do, and this universe is what He came up with one day? I guess after waiting for an infinite period of time, he suddenly got bored and thought... whatever, let's throw tapeworms in there, and meteorites.

[Joods]

Your argument doesn't really matter to us God believers because part of believing in God is believing that He is a super natural being who, unlike us, has always existed.

So He had literally an infinite time to think about what to do, and this universe is what He came up with?

Don't forget, Quantum, that he decided that instead of putting life on ALL planets, he specifically chose THIS one. This, tiny, blue, speck of a planet out of all the vast, possibly much larger planets. He chose THIS one. And THEN, out of all of the creatures that walk the earth, he specifically chose OUR kind to be able to speak, read and write and develop technologies and all that other good stuff. 

Hmm.. impressive. NOT.

[Alex K]

The Christians would probably be real pissed off to find out that they are not the super special #1 of God's creation, aren't even #1020234523473ß498572348. The guy has been at it for an infinite period of time! We're probably #infinity. Wait for another few infinities and He'll probably not even remember us.

[robvalue]

I thought of a better way to state my position about weird "gods" ordering me to dance around like a bitch, or else I'll be punished:

I don't negotiate with terrorists.

But you hopefully are interested in whether *there is a terrorist*?

It would be interesting, sure. It would be new knowledge, and it would be hilarious that the "Mafia Boss" insane cartoon character God turned out to be a real thing. It just wouldn't change anything if I did find it out. It would also suck, if I thought there was any chance he could actually carry out these after-death threats. We would have a maniac in control, and we'd be screwed. But there's nothing anyone could do about it, unless we found some other God that could oust him.

I'm just as worried that there's an invisible sniper somewhere, who's going to shoot me when I've taken a certain amount of steps. I can't worry about every ridiculous nonsense idea; "God" is no more credible than anything else.

Even if god starts coming down and actually knee-capping me, I'm still not going to do his dirty work. The idea that a god wants to manipulate his own creation into going and pissing off some gay people rather than just doing it himself, is so laughable. Hence the hilarity if that turned out to be the case. It would be more akin to me playing some sort of strategy game, screwing around with it, and not realising the pieces have become aware.

There was actually a Stargate Atlantis episode based around this very idea; Rodney and Shephard were playing a "game" and were totally unaware that the inhabitants of the worlds they were manipulating were conscious until much later.

As for the primary argument, it's easily defeated thusly:

Either there are one or more things that exist that didn't need a creator, or there isn't.

If there is, how did you rule out the universe being one of them?

If there isn't, God also needs a creator.

[Alex K]

As for the primary argument, it's easily defeated thusly:

Either there are one or more things that exist that didn't need a creator, or there isn't.

If there is, how did you rule out the universe being one of them?

If there isn't, God also needs a creator.

In some of these arguments for God, like the ontological argument, they are so vague in specifying the properties of the thing they are proving to exist, that it could just as well be the universe itself that is meant.

[Joods]

I remember that episode of SG-1. I miss that show.
Damn Rob, even at 6:33 in the morning, you make really valid points. You always have.

[robvalue]

Thanks very much! I appreciate it! I'd like to think it reaches someone, somewhere, out there... some lurker. If I get one person to stop and just think, then I'm happy. That's all I ask, I don't expect people to just agree with me and throw their beliefs in the bin. Of course not.

I just got through editing my above post loads of times

Quantum: Indeed! All "God" is in these arguments is just a self-created-paradox-fixing placeholder. It's a plug for a hole the person just insists is there.

PS: It's Stargate Atlantis season 3, episode 15, "The Game". They find out the game they are playing is actually manipulating a real planet, with real beings. I can't find much of a proper clip, but this is a sort of medley overview:

http://youtu.be/O2tQGUC17zs

[Joods]

Ahh yes, thanks for clarifying. I loved all three shows. SG-1, Atlantis and Universe. Too bad they were all cancelled. Hulu suckers me into shows and then either doesn't have the complete series or has a time limit on how long you have to watch them. Grrr.