Pope Francis backs peace efforts in Christmas Day message

[robvalue]

You nailed it, Rob.

Thanks

Let's face it, if God doesn't have the time or inclination to listen to the freaking Pope's prayers, why would anyone else expect a look in?

You know... Whether or not such a crazy character such as Yahweh exists is a matter of fact, it exists or it does not. If someone thinks it exists, however misguided, to them that is how it is; fair enough. It's choosing to then worship the piece of shit that I can't understand. They are the ones trying to convince us that he really did all the horrific stuff in the books.

If I believed it was real, I'd be totally enraged at it, and wanting answers as to why it was such an evil prick. My "prayers" would sound very different to the norm.

Reading the above again, I realize I'd go from a calm atheist to an angry theist! It's non-belief in God that keeps me calm, because I can laugh at the stupid character knowing it's not real. Obviously it's not emotion that drives my conclusion, it would just be a side effect of finding out there really is a massive nob-end screwing with us.

[Brian37]

Thanks

Let's face it, if God doesn't have the time or inclination to listen to the freaking Pope's prayers, why would anyone else expect a look in?

You know... Whether or not such a crazy character such as Yahweh exists is a matter of fact, it exists or it does not. If someone thinks it exists, however misguided, to them that is how it is; fair enough. It's choosing to then worship the piece of shit that I can't understand. They are the ones trying to convince us that he really did all the horrific stuff in the books.

If I believed it was real, I'd be totally enraged at it, and wanting answers as to why it was such an evil prick. My "prayers" would sound very different to the norm.

Reading the above again, I realize I'd go from a calm atheist to an angry theist! It's non-belief in God that keeps me calm, because I can laugh at the stupid character knowing it's not real. Obviously it's not emotion that drives my conclusion, it would just be a side effect of finding out there really is a massive nob-end screwing with us.

If the Character Yoda demanded  Luke to murder Lea like God did with asking Abraham to kill his own son, I doubt people would find such a plot moral. If Superman demanded Jimmy kill Olsen nuke the entire city of Metropolis or Superman actually nuked it himself like God did with the flood, nobody would find such a plot moral.

So cherry picking is the only way humans can defend the god of Abraham. Believers simply cant stand someone rightfully pointing out there is no difference between the fantastic claims of holy books and the fantastic claims of a comic book story. Both require suspension of disbelief.

[Angrboda]

Believers simply cant stand someone rightfully pointing out there is no difference between the fantastic claims of holy books and the fantastic claims of a comic book story. Both require suspension of disbelief.

You're full of shit. Believers are offended because to them there are very real salient differences between the two, if only in the ontological commitment of the believer. You're just mouthing fighting words. You probably get a kick out of doing so.

[Brian37]

Believers simply cant stand someone rightfully pointing out there is no difference between the fantastic claims of holy books and the fantastic claims of a comic book story. Both require suspension of disbelief.

You're full of shit.  Believers are offended because to them there are very real salient differences between the two, if only in the ontological commitment of the believer.  You're just mouthing fighting words.  You probably get a kick out of doing so.

No...... That growling is your cognitive dissonance, not me being wrong.

Claiming an invisible being is beyond nature. Thor isn't merely a comic book or movie character it is now, humans literally believed in a god named Thor.

Claiming a man can pop out of dirt, is a super natural claim, it does not happen in nature. Claiming that women popped out of a rib also a super natural claim.  Superman flies in his comic books and movies and that too is a depiction of an act beyond nature, we don't see humans fly like that. Superman has the word "Super" in it, as in "beyond human".

The only difference between a holy book and a comic book is that one is believed to be fact and the political power to impose it's will on others. Never see anyone starting wars over Star Wars or Harry Potter do you?

Don't be so quick to defend religious claims. It was understandable back then that people wrote those things and believed those things, but calling it fiction does not make the differences non fiction. 

Just like we know George Washington did exist but the "Cherry tree" story is a legend. Religions get created just like that.

[Angrboda]

The only difference between a holy book and a comic book is that one is believed to be fact and the political power to impose it's will on others. Never see anyone starting wars over Star Wars or Harry Potter do you?

Believing something to be real happens for a reason, it provokes cognitions in the brain. Regardless, you yourself point out the difference that your first post denied existed, so take your cognitive dissonance and shove it up your ass.

[Brian37]

The only difference between a holy book and a comic book is that one is believed to be fact and the political power to impose it's will on others. Never see anyone starting wars over Star Wars or Harry Potter do you?

Believing something to be real happens for a reason, it provokes cognitions in the brain.  Regardless, you yourself point out the difference that your first post denied existed, so take your cognitive dissonance and shove it up your ass.

Yes belief that something is real DOES happen for a reason, but that is not the same as it being real. And yes all beliefs get formed in the brain. YES. But that does not make the claim bought or sold true just because the communication between multiple people happens. It merely means you run into a claim. It doesn't mean the claim itself is valid.

It was NEVER true that men came from dirt. 

It was NEVER true that a woman came from a man's rib.

So why did people back then write those claims and and put it in a holy book?

For the same reason the Ancient Egyptians had their sun god and savior god Horus born from Isis. Creating fantasitic claims and believing those fantastic claims and calling them gods is simply an adult form of fantasy. Falsely DOES happen for a reason, and that reason is ignorance. I don't mean stupid, I mean they didn't know any better. No different than a kid if they believe you when you sell them Santa. It is gap filling. 

Our species flaw is we gap fill and those false perceptions get turned into god claims and religions. Humans once also thought the angry volcano was a god. But that really is no different than selling a kid Santa. Sell it to them when they are sponges some will buy it right off the bat. Religion is no different. Humans in all of antiquity, both monotheism and polytheism did not have modern tools and all of them gap filled and created fantastic stories to give themselves a sense of self importance.

False perceptions are also why conspiracies like 9/11 and Big Foot get started. Religion is simply one type of false perception. But it is the biggest political power based on false perception.

I know it offends some people to hear me put it like that yes, but that doesn't make me wrong. When I say claiming a God is no different than Yoda, I am not saying that out of meanness . I am saying that because they both appeal to emotions, both commit fantastic feats as depicted in forms of media such as books or movies and those depictions in both go beyond nature, but only one is believed to be fact.
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 If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

[Brian37]

We all gap fill on a daily basis without realizing it, even I do it. Ever walk around with your glasses on without realizing it? Ever walk around with your keys in your hands without realizing it? Ever walk into glass door because you thought it was open? Ever bang your head on something because you misjudged the distance above you?

That gap filling is what lead humans to believe volcanos were gods, then when they started organized religions and language the god's became more human like and took on human attributes.

Plato's allegory of the cave is apt description of how flawed perceptions can lead to bad gap filling. Both Santa and God are literally believed depending on age and both due to false perceptions and gap filling. But again, only one is believed to be fact. The other is believed by kids to be fact because they don't know any better.

[Angrboda]

Creating fantasitic claims and believing those fantastic claims and calling them gods is simply an adult form of fantasy. Falsely DOES happen for a reason, and that reason is ignorance. I don't mean stupid, I mean they didn't know any better. No different than a kid if they believe you when you sell them Santa. It is gap filling. 

It isn't mere adult fantasy. There are effects on the brain which differentiate it from fantasy. You're simplifying what can't be simplified, solely for the sake of scoring a rhetorical point against theism. The brain is everything we are. If the mental soup is different because of the practice of faith, then the reality of it is different. And until you acknowledge the very real effects of religious practices on the brain, all your attempts to reason with a theist will be in vain.

[Brian37]

Creating fantasitic claims and believing those fantastic claims and calling them gods is simply an adult form of fantasy. Falsely DOES happen for a reason, and that reason is ignorance. I don't mean stupid, I mean they didn't know any better. No different than a kid if they believe you when you sell them Santa. It is gap filling. 

It isn't mere adult fantasy.  There are effects on the brain which differentiate it from fantasy.  You're simplifying what can't be simplified, solely for the sake of scoring a rhetorical point against theism.  The brain is everything we are.  If the mental soup is different because of the practice of faith, then the reality of it is different.  And until you acknowledge the very real effects of religious practices on the brain, all your attempts to reason with a theist will be in vain.

No I am not over simplifying it. I agree it has an affect on the brain. Where did I say it didn't ? A child's fantasy of Santa also has an affect on their brain IN A VERY REAL SENSE. All I said is that Santa is not real despite them wanting him to be real. Same with god belief. YES it does have a very real affect on their brains, but that does not make the fantastic claims or gods they believe in real. God is no different than Yoda or Thor or the Egyptian god Horus. Now when you talk of modern theism, the god/s still believed today are no different than those of the ancient Egyptians whose brains were literally affected by their false perception that the sun was controlled by a god. 

And again, if you think Star Wars or Star Trek wont become religions because people now are not treating them as such, remember that L Ron Hubbard a si fi writer started a Scientology, a religion which clearly is nothing but made up fantasy. YES the desire to believe and the chemicals that we induce and the neurons we fire  when we think of things we want to be true can be very powerful, but also very false.

I gave you the SCIENTIFIC reason false beliefs happen. It is because of our species evolutionary gap filling based on false perceptions. Dawkins lays that out quite well in "The God Delusion" as "the moth mistaking the light bulb for moonlight".

Religion is the butterfly in the inkblot. It is a literal misfire in the brain. I is also why we walk around looking for our keys while carrying them in our hands. Religion is that false perception on steroids. Religion is simply an organized mass delusion.

[Edwardo Piet]

Jor is right, can't be arsed explaining in my own words though. Just think of me applauding Jor and booing Brian in the background