A conversation with Robvalue about religion.

[The Grand Nudger]

Because you don't act like people who do realize that, that's why.

[Mystic]

Because you don't act like people who do realize that, that's why.

How so?

[The Grand Nudger]

I could just quote your previous post, as a prime example....but if you realized that..you wouldn't be asking the question, eh? In the same breath that you decried mythmaking..you related your belief in the myth of prophethood. You don;t act like a person who has come to any realization, whatsoever...about the first part of your sentence..by the time you get to the end of it.

[Mystic]

I could just quote your previous post, as a prime example....but if you realized that..you wouldn't be asking the question, eh?

Humans made shit up - therefore God cannot guide humans in form of Prophets and Messengers? Is this a reasonable argument?

People write falsehood in books, therefore it's impossible for God to reveal a book that guides to the truth?

Or is that he can, but he won't, because humans made shit up?

[Brian37]

Why do people act if Theists don't know humans made up a lot of myth, made up stuff about religion without knowledge, lead their people in falsehood.

We know this. Part of my belief as to why God would send Prophets and Messengers, is because people are lead astray by leaders making shit up and having the cloak of power/authority.

It's to counter that with right guidance and proofs of the right way, and establish an authority based on truth, in which society can form an axis around.

Again the "astray" argument is one Christians make too. They would claim you've been fooled and so has the atheist. 

There is no conspiracy. Nobody here is trying to fool you by simply telling you your God does not exist. 

You, like Christians, like Jews and Hindus merely like what you believe and want it to be true. We get that, some of us were religious as deeply as you are. Now I have pointed to educated X Muslims whom some were as deep into it as you are now. There are also X Christians who were preachers. And there are even X Hindus.

We really are not out to make you do bad things, or commit evil acts. We are simply saying what you want to be true is not true. And just like with Christians and Jews and Hindus, we also tell them, it was understandable back in all of antiquity that people wrote those stories and sold them. But that was then, we have much better tools than old books to asses the nature of life and the universe.

Nothing bad will happen to you if you accept you got it wrong. Accepting that you got it wrong is how you learn and grow. The good news is that there is no hell to burn in. That does not mean we atheists advocate lawlessness or claim that we should not have emotions. It only means we have left old claims behind and accepted our best data to date.

We still have ups and downs. We still feel pain and joy. We still value good and non violence. We simply do not assign life to magic. And we make the same arguments to Christians and Jews and Hindus and any other religion. It really will be OK if you figure out what we have.

[Aoi Magi]

Humans made shit up - therefore God cannot guide humans in form of Prophets and Messengers? Is this a reasonable argument?

Yes it is a reasonable argument. Why would a supreme being keep using a flawed method to disperse his words knowing full well in advance that they will be inseparable from the "shit" made up by humans?

[Mystic]

Humans made shit up - therefore God cannot guide humans in form of Prophets and Messengers? Is this a reasonable argument?

Yes it is a reasonable argument. Why would a supreme being keep using a flawed method to disperse his words knowing full well in advance that they will be inseparable from the "shit" made up by humans?

 A supreme being would not use a flawed method and hence his words would not be inseparable from "shit" made up by humans.

[Aoi Magi]

Yes it is a reasonable argument. Why would a supreme being keep using a flawed method to disperse his words knowing full well in advance that they will be inseparable from the "shit" made up by humans?

 A supreme being would not use a flawed method and hence his words would not be inseparable from "shit" made up by humans.

But then allah and any other claimed deity IS using the flawed method of human messengers and books which ARE inseparable from other human-made shit

[Mystic]

You mean to say Islam and Quran are human made fabrications or at least you believe so.

Otherwise, God can write a text distinct from human capability and guide towards the truth.

[Aoi Magi]

You mean to say Islam and Quran are human made fabrications or at least you believe so.

Otherwise, God can write a text distinct from human capability and guide towards the truth.

Not just islam, quran, all major religions use the same flawed methods of messengers and holy books, and as you agreed, a real supreme being wouldn't use flawed methods