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If you were ever a theist...
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 (January 1, 2016 at 1:05 pm)Cephus Wrote: I hope for everything. To me, that is rational. But that's the thing. "To you" doesn't matter. Rational is objective. It is not subject to your opinions. You either act rationally or you do not. You are not acting rationally. [/quote] Having hope doesn't mean I don't live in the here and now. One can't avoid objective reality. Hope and reality are not diametrically opposed, but you can see it that way if you like.  (January 1, 2016 at 1:10 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:(January 1, 2016 at 1:05 pm)Cephus Wrote: I hope for everything. To me, that is rational. Having hope doesn't mean I don't live in the here and now. One can't avoid objective reality. Hope and reality are not diametrically opposed, but you can see it that way if you like. [/quote] But that is exactly what you're doing when you hope for things that don't demonstrably exist in objective reality. You can wish for a magical pony all you want, but magical ponies don't exist no matter how hard you wish they did. There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
Bitch at my blog! Follow me on Twitter! Subscribe to my YouTube channel! (January 1, 2016 at 4:12 pm)Cephus Wrote:(January 1, 2016 at 1:10 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: But that's the thing. "To you" doesn't matter. Rational is objective. It is not subject to your opinions. You either act rationally or you do not. You are not acting rationally. But that is exactly what you're doing when you hope for things that don't demonstrably exist in objective reality. You can wish for a magical pony all you want, but magical ponies don't exist no matter how hard you wish they did. [/quote] lol Of course, I agree with you on that. I was assuming we were talking about hope, in a very general sense, not necessarily attached to religion/spirituality. So, let me back up, do you ever have hope in humanity? Do you ever feel hopeful...or in other words...optimistic about things in your own life? I was speaking in more of a broad idea of hope, 'hope in everything.' This doesn't separate me from what is happening before me, but I can hope to have a great new year, I can hope for you to accomplish your dreams...this doesn't stop reality from occurring, however. I think hope can be very positive, and doesn't have to be attached to a deity. Diedre32 Wrote:lol Of course, I agree with you on that. I was assuming we were talking about hope, in a very general sense, not necessarily attached to religion/spirituality. So, let me back up, do you ever have hope in humanity? Do you ever feel hopeful...or in other words...optimistic about things in your own life? I was speaking in more of a broad idea of hope, 'hope in everything.' This doesn't separate me from what is happening before me, but I can hope to have a great new year, I can hope for you to accomplish your dreams...this doesn't stop reality from occurring, however. I think hope can be very positive, and doesn't have to be attached to a deity. There's a difference between being positive about things that are realistic and being pie-in-the-sky, believing-in-unicorns irrational. Do I have hope in humanity? Sometimes, but at least humanity demonstrably exists. I don't have hope that magical spirits are going to come down and save the world. That's foolish. And just having hope doesn't mean a thing, you actually have to take actions to make said hope come true. Just sitting in the corner hoping things happen doesn't actually result in anything happening. Hope, in and of itself, is pointless. It requires action. There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
Bitch at my blog! Follow me on Twitter! Subscribe to my YouTube channel! 
With family for the evening and haven't had a chance to read all the posts, so sorry if this has already been addressed - just curious to know, what made you want to come back to Christianity?
Welcome back to the dark side, btw. ;-)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh 
nuff said.
(January 1, 2016 at 6:33 pm)Cephus Wrote: There's a difference between being positive about things that are realistic and being pie-in-the-sky, believing-in-unicorns irrational. Not everyone thinks the same as you do, Cephus. Just because someone (most people, really) doesn't agree with you regarding the existence of a God, doesn't mean they are not rational people. It just means they believe something different on this particular issue. You sound exactly the same as the snobby self righteous religious people you all hate who just say to anyone who does not believe: "you're wrong, I'm right, you're crazy, I'm sane, and that's just the end of it." That's just the opposite side of the exact same coin, my friend. Of course, there's nothing wrong with making an argument for your particular way of thinking on this, but to sit there and say the other person is wrong and irrational, is completely counter productive. Because of course you think you're right and they're wrong, and of course they think they're right and you're wrong. That's the whole point of having a different belief.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh (January 1, 2016 at 6:33 pm)Cephus Wrote:Diedre32 Wrote:lol Of course, I agree with you on that. I was assuming we were talking about hope, in a very general sense, not necessarily attached to religion/spirituality. So, let me back up, do you ever have hope in humanity? Do you ever feel hopeful...or in other words...optimistic about things in your own life? I was speaking in more of a broad idea of hope, 'hope in everything.' This doesn't separate me from what is happening before me, but I can hope to have a great new year, I can hope for you to accomplish your dreams...this doesn't stop reality from occurring, however. I think hope can be very positive, and doesn't have to be attached to a deity. I do agree, that hope by itself is useless...absolutely. I never said otherwise though. 
(January 1, 2016 at 6:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: With family for the evening and haven't had a chance to read all the posts, so sorry if this has already been addressed - just curious to know, what made you want to come back to Christianity? Hi Catholic Lady, well...I had an experience of faith a few months ago, something I'd consider was the Holy Spirit. I know that to many here (and I'd have thought this at one time too) that it could have been a coincidence, but even if I apply Occam's Razor to it, I believe it was spiritual as to what happened. So, I came back. I hadn't considered returning, nothing about Christianity interested me anymore, until a few months ago, and now, I'm back to prayer, church (not regularly though), and believing. I'm not strict on dogmas, I feel that faith should be experienced, as opposed to merely recited and agreed upon 'just because.' There are still some things within the Bible I question, but I believe that there is a Creator, and life is quite good. Thanks for asking. 
If the religion bug ever got me I'd be mighty disappointed if I got stuck believing in a creator.
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