Debate between me, myself and I!

[Mystic]

Among those arguments is the problem of evil.

It seems it's pretty much acknowledged God can protect us from evils, but doesn't.  She can eliminate unnecessary suffering but doesn't. 

She can have created a world without all these wars, disease, famines, poverty, but didn't?

The question is further complicated by the fact, if we personally can reduce suffering in the world, we ought to do so. That being the case, why isn't God required to do so?

If we should strive in science to eliminate all disease or find cures for illnesses, why doesn't God reduce all diseases and illness to practically nothing or eliminate it all together?

It's further complicated when many of those who die, are children. Children who will not have the ability to build their character and be tested with regards to the evils. What will be their fate? If it's heaven and their life was worthwhile, why couldn't heaven be the starting and end place of all humanity?

These are important and pressing questions.

[LastPoet]

To you, mabe.

[Joods]

Wouldn't it just be easier to talk to yourself out loud vs putting your debate on a forum? I have the feeling that your aim was actually to get people to respond by your use of reverse psychology.

Interesting.

[Athene]

Anyone interested in placing bets? I'm putting money on MysticKnight.

Don't let me down, MK. I've got 20 bucks riding on this!

[Angrboda]

Eppur si muove...

[Nay_Sayer]

Anyone interested in placing bets? I'm putting money on MysticKnight.

Don't let me down, MK. I've got 20 bucks riding on this!

Somehow I think he'll still end up losing to himself.

[*Deidre*]

Among those arguments is the problem of evil.

It seems it's pretty much acknowledged God can protect us from evils, but doesn't.  She can eliminate unnecessary suffering but doesn't. 

She can have created a world without all these wars, disease, famines, poverty, but didn't?

The question is further complicated by the fact, if we personally can reduce suffering in the world, we ought to do so. That being the case, why isn't God required to do so?

If we should strive in science to eliminate all disease or find cures for illnesses, why doesn't God reduce all diseases and illness to practically nothing or eliminate it all together?

It's further complicated when many of those who die, are children. Children who will not have the ability to build their character and be tested with regards to the evils. What will be their fate? If it's heaven and their life was worthwhile, why couldn't heaven be the starting and end place of all humanity?

These are important and pressing questions.

Hi Mystic,

Do you have answers to these questions that you'll be sharing? Just your own ideas/answers, I mean.

[Mystic]

Hi Mystic,

Do you have answers to these questions that you'll be sharing? Just your own ideas/answers, I mean.

Yes/maybe/be patient

[dyresand]

Among those arguments is the problem of evil.

It seems it's pretty much acknowledged God can protect us from evils, but doesn't.  She can eliminate unnecessary suffering but doesn't. 

She can have created a world without all these wars, disease, famines, poverty, but didn't?

The question is further complicated by the fact, if we personally can reduce suffering in the world, we ought to do so. That being the case, why isn't God required to do so?

If we should strive in science to eliminate all disease or find cures for illnesses, why doesn't God reduce all diseases and illness to practically nothing or eliminate it all together?

It's further complicated when many of those who die, are children. Children who will not have the ability to build their character and be tested with regards to the evils. What will be their fate? If it's heaven and their life was worthwhile, why couldn't heaven be the starting and end place of all humanity?

These are important and pressing questions.

You do realize we as humans can solve the problem of war, disease, famine and poverty.
It should be obvious that since your god can fix all these problems but chooses not to should be a hint that
your god doesn't give a fuck about humanity. 

1. Medical scientists are striving to cure diseases and illnesses. 

2. The problem of war can be solved with Diplomacy the ability of telling someone to go to hell they enjoy the trip. 

3. Poverty easy enough fix more opportunity for jobs, increase in minimum wage, and social services to help those who are less fortunate
getting them back into society. 

4. Famine well.. either or study the wheather patterns.

[Mystic]

If we self-project our rights over one another to that of God, it seems we run into some problematic issues. God as the Creator can't even create death in the system, as that would be murder. If a innocent dies, then it would be murder on part of God.

I feel God as the source of all beings, has the right to plan a system in the universe for them. The only thing it must not be an unjust intention on part of the Creator.

Now the words God works in mysterious ways to be is a not a bad answer, it's just not very satisfying. It's obvious God works in ways beyond what we do were we in her place.

But that can be easily understood in that we are limited beings and we crave ease and happiness. 

If my limited view of morality is taken as absolute and I apply it to a transcended Creator, is that too not perhaps a way to err?

Further more then that, if even let's say there are reasons in the design of the universe, if it explained to me, would go hand to hand with my level of understanding of morality, is it necessary that I reject the possibility of God because I don't understand those reasons as of yet?

One perspective is that there is divine sword of honor, that tested in a world were things are not so easy and smooth, develops a beauty in patience, a majesty in serene fortitude. 

And for your Lord, be patient. (Quran)

Now obviously children don't get to experience the tests of life as grown ups, but while they lose an opportunity, they are also spared a chance of failure and becoming something which merits God's punishment.

So while over all it's a bad thing children die, there is a flip side to it, in that they are guaranteed paradise. They miss opportunity of character building. 

That said, the system would be different in how it tests human if God interfered and made sure no children die. 

Now a person can ask, do we have the right to that afflict suferring to bring the best out of people? The answer is no. This assumption makes the assumption our rights as citizens of the system, is the same, as the Creator and Designer of the system.

Obviously, our part is to be compassionate and merciful to each other. This extends to the issue we should look for cures, we should try to stop as much suffering as possible, because the opposite would be catastrophic to our system and to each other.

However whatever we face of trials, if it's from God, we feel we can be tested by him, and he has the right to test us. This is the essence of worship in my view, acknowledging God's right over you, being patient for her sake.

The test of such patience for the sake of God is something that can create a honorable love on part of God for her servant and a sense of honor on part of the patient in receiving such love and honor.

It's a closeness, a relationship.

Aside from that, is we are given something both in this world and the next, that is suppose to make suffering bearable and easily withstood, then this perspective changes.

And this is where I shift the issue of the spiritual guidance and the treasured blessings we receive through sticking to the Guides.

"God only desires to keep the uncleanness from you O people of the House and purifies you a thorough purification"

If all blessings in all states in creation, in Angels, in Prophets who left this world, in every affair of peace, is encompassed in the family of Mohammad...for example, what affliction is there really in the suffering they endured?

Imam Hussain and his companions and sons were killed in Karbala, but what did he actually lose at the end?

What I'm trying to say by this, for those people who embrace God's favor and receive it, the world trials become a source of greater blessings both in this world and the next.

Of course aside from this, is the battle between good and evil. It seems if we go for quantity, then God didn't design the best system. Having us all born in paradise and end there seems better.

But if God cares to bring quality and is wiling to sacrifice quantity for that, then this makes sense.

However, part of the solution to this issue to me is perspective of the Mastery of his Chosen ones and the guidance role they play. The blessed states in the unseen, the glory and beauty, we have in serving the just cause of the chosen ones, the patience they show to imitate and fortitude they teach in the unseen,  and courage of the willing to sacrifice ourselves for the greater good, this to me justifies the system as is.

Of course, if we don't care for quality of our souls, the system will seem unjust. If it's all about quantity over quality, the system will seem unjust.

But I see God trying to make gods and goddesses out of humans so to speak (of course, I don't believe there can be gods beside God, this is just poetic metaphor) and blow into them holy treasures through action in this world, patience, courage, and reflection.

This explanation perhaps doesn't satisfy some people, perhaps it doesn't even fully satisfy me, but it gives a scent enough of a will, that perhaps there is benevolent purpose to the chaotic world we are in.