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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 6, 2016 at 12:18 pm
(January 6, 2016 at 10:44 am)robvalue Wrote: I know right?
It must drive them crazy to see unholy atheist scum not running around murdering people like their pastor promised they do 
PS: Here's a question for the (religious) theists. If you didn't think there was any afterlife, would you still care what god's idea of morality is? Or would you just decide what to do yourself?
Hell yeah! I devote my life to annoying the silly god believers and if that means been moral then heck that's what an atheist gotta do right?
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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 6, 2016 at 12:20 pm
(This post was last modified: January 6, 2016 at 1:57 pm by God of Mr. Hanky.)
(January 6, 2016 at 1:58 am)Godschild Wrote: (January 5, 2016 at 9:47 pm)Irrational Wrote: If the source of morality is from God, then how can we directly and comprehensively study it so that we can know all about what is morally right and what is morally wrong?
Irrational, morality is not necessarily from God, in as He dictates rules He made up for people to live by. In actuality morality is determined because who God is. God says we are to be holy as He is holy, this means we are to live our lives by who God is. Well, just who is this god?
Quote:God says we are to separate ourselves from the world, He means we are to avoid what the world believes, that morality is subjective and we can live as we see fit.
Oh, Hell! That's a huge leap to take for one who won't even reveal himself to you.
Quote:This is why God gave us His word so that we could come to belief in Him and search out who He is in a relationship with Him through Christ. This is a simple way to explain what Christians understand or at least most of us, but to go into it deeply would mean a Bible study which most here would ignore.
GC
Oh, so it's the god of that book - the one of a long list of atrocities which I'm sure even you are aware of, and who's best solution for saving people from his own errors as an all-perfect creator was the murder of his own son. One who thinks that's anybody they should trust is one who makes me worry!
Given the multiple personality variances according to the different people who wrote for this god (who is so mighty he doesn't even have his own hand to write with), plus the fact that he still won't even show anyone his face, there's less a chance that the bible describes any real god as there is that the ramblings of anybody's sock puppets describe the real god.
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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 6, 2016 at 12:57 pm
(January 6, 2016 at 10:55 am)MysticKnight Wrote: (January 6, 2016 at 8:11 am)Irrational Wrote: Ok, would you be one of those who have access to the Guide by any chance?
Nope.
Then divine morality is inaccessible to you. Therefore, this suggests your morality comes from something else (maybe your subjective views). But if so, what is the point of divine morality, especially if you are doing ok morally without it?
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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 6, 2016 at 1:03 pm
(This post was last modified: January 6, 2016 at 1:05 pm by Mystic.)
(January 6, 2016 at 12:57 pm)Irrational Wrote: (January 6, 2016 at 10:55 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Nope.
Then divine morality is inaccessible to you. Therefore, this suggests your morality comes from something else (maybe your subjective views). But if so, what is the point of divine morality, especially if you are doing ok morally without it?
Who says it's inaccessible?
Am I doing ok without it? What's your definition of ok? What is ok morally to you?
Subjectively I have a different expectation then you. I don't think I am doing ok.
You don't believe in the unseen path to begin with. So me being left behind is ok with you. To me it's not ok at all.
But it doesn't matter what ok is to me or to you. What matters is what is ok to God given what She entrusted us with if you believe in Her.
That is why a reminder, an admonishment, a warning, and good news, is expected of God.
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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 6, 2016 at 1:30 pm
(January 6, 2016 at 1:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (January 6, 2016 at 12:57 pm)Irrational Wrote: Then divine morality is inaccessible to you. Therefore, this suggests your morality comes from something else (maybe your subjective views). But if so, what is the point of divine morality, especially if you are doing ok morally without it?
Who says it's inaccessible?
Am I doing ok without it? What's your definition of ok? What is ok morally to you?
Subjectively I have a different expectation then you. I don't think I am doing ok.
You don't believe in the unseen path to begin with. So me being left behind is ok with you. To me it's not ok at all.
But it doesn't matter what ok is to me or to you. What matters is what is ok to God given what She entrusted us with if you believe in Her.
That is why a reminder, an admonishment, a warning, and good news, is expected of God.
What if God really isn't more than the mortal humans who wrote what they attributed to that god? I know that even if this were to be proven, and you dealt with said truth, it would probably not convince you that the idea of your god is no more than the product of other humans, with or without any direct communication to humanity through holy books, but then how can you really know that it is?
You said this:
"But it doesn't matter what ok is to me or to you. What matters is what is ok to God..."
How can you really know what is ok to your god? I've seen people claim to communicate with their god directly through prayer and reflection, but...ahhhh, REFLECTION! What it really comes down to is the battle within each individual between id and ego, sometimes in the presence of a superego but often that mental element is absentee. Whether or not your decisions are selfish or altruistic, they are in truth yours, and the god which you have constructed in your own image is a convenient deflection target when you feel that to be necessary.
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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 6, 2016 at 1:34 pm
(This post was last modified: January 6, 2016 at 1:34 pm by robvalue.)
I'd be more worried about god's reaction when he finds out how he is being represented in these religions. I wouldn't want to be the one holding any of those books when the big man shows up. I'm happy being the one who acknowledges his attributes, if he exists, are unknowable. I think he'll like that.
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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 7, 2016 at 12:15 am
(January 6, 2016 at 1:58 am)Godschild Wrote:
Mr. Hanky Wrote:Well, just who is this god?
I gave the answer to this in my post to Irrational, this very post you seem to dislike.
Quote:
Mr. Hanky Wrote:Oh, Hell! That's a huge leap to take for one who won't even reveal himself to you.
This absolutely makes no sense. The One who created all things is limitless.
Quote:
GC
Mr. Hanky Wrote:Oh, so it's the god of that book - the one of a long list of atrocities which I'm sure even you are aware of, and who's best solution for saving people from his own errors as an all-perfect creator was the murder of his own son. One who thinks that's anybody they should trust is one who makes me worry!
What errors? Man killed Christ not the Father, man was able to kill Christ because Christ allowed it to happen, this is stated in the scriptures that seemingly you haven't read or you wouldn't make such statements. Yes, it is the God of the Bible.
Mr. Hanky Wrote:Given the multiple personality variances according to the different people who wrote for this god (who is so mighty he doesn't even have his own hand to write with), plus the fact that he still won't even show anyone his face, there's less a chance that the bible describes any real god as there is that the ramblings of anybody's sock puppets describe the real god.
God is Spirit, He's not a physical being as we are, again if you had read the Bible you would know this. What requirement is there that God has to reveal himself to our eyes, many people believe in dark matter yet it has never been seen. By what you say dark matter must be rejected because it hasn't revealed itself to us.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 7, 2016 at 12:22 am
All i know is that.. if the bible is god's word and christians have been following and any abrahamic religion so far should realize
god is a bad judge character and has shitty morals.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 7, 2016 at 12:33 am
(January 6, 2016 at 8:12 am)Irrational Wrote: (January 6, 2016 at 1:58 am)Godschild Wrote: Irrational, morality is not necessarily from God, in as He dictates rules He made up for people to live by. In actuality morality is determined because who God is. God says we are to be holy as He is holy, this means we are to live our lives by who God is. God says we are to separate ourselves from the world, He means we are to avoid what the world believes, that morality is subjective and we can live as we see fit. This is why God gave us His word so that we could come to belief in Him and search out who He is in a relationship with Him through Christ. This is a simple way to explain what Christians understand or at least most of us, but to go into it deeply would mean a Bible study which most here would ignore.
GC
Yes, you believe morality is rooted in his nature. But do you have a clear, less vague, answer to my OP question?
The Bible, by the way, surely does not tell you everything you need to know about God's morality.
First thanks for your pleasant reply. I really don't think I was vague just simplistic. As I said the Bible reveals how we can come into relationship with God (through Jesus) and then develop a relationship with Him in a very personal way. Much like you would come to have a friend who was once a total stranger to you, it takes time and work and in both cases faith comes at the front of the relationship. The Bible is sufficient for all knowledge we can understand about God, this is why we have so many differing interpretations of who God is, there is so much within it. Also, many people want to lead the Bible into their preconceived ideas of who God is, when we should allow the Bible to lead us to who God is, that's why God gave it to us, those who want a relationship with Him has a road map that He will reveal to us as we grow with Him.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Question to Theists About the Source of Morality
January 7, 2016 at 12:58 am
(This post was last modified: January 7, 2016 at 1:15 am by God of Mr. Hanky.)
(January 7, 2016 at 12:15 am)Godschild Wrote: Mr. Hanky
Quote:Well, just who is this god?
I gave the answer to this in my post to Irrational, this very post you seem to dislike.
No. You. Didn't! You couldn't even pick him out in a police lineup. How about biographical data? What, none of that either, and still you claim to have "personal" relationship with that "person"?
I call poo!
When you lift folded hands to the sky on bended knee, or whatever it is you do when you call it "prayer", the obvious fact is that the only person who you are conversing with is yourself when alone, and when it's out loud in company you are doing no more than addressing the crowd.
Quote:Mr. Hanky Wrote:Oh, Hell! That's a huge leap to take for one who won't even reveal himself to you.
This absolutely makes no sense. The One who created all things is limitless.
So limitless that he can't even show you his face without killing you? So limitless that he couldn't cut his own stone tablets, much less write a book without the use of other people's hands, and then he couldn't even get those hands to write with any consistency on their bio data and how events played out? You need to stop posting, and read that bible some more - read all of it, and then read it again!
Quote:Quote:
GC
Mr. Hanky Wrote:Oh, so it's the god of that book - the one of a long list of atrocities which I'm sure even you are aware of, and who's best solution for saving people from his own errors as an all-perfect creator was the murder of his own son. One who thinks that's anybody they should trust is one who makes me worry!
What errors? Man killed Christ not the Father, man was able to kill Christ because Christ allowed it to happen, this is stated in the scriptures that seemingly you haven't read or you wouldn't make such statements. Yes, it is the God of the Bible.
Intentional martyrdom is suicide. Suicide is evil. Child sacrifice is evil. Filicide is the most horrific abomination against humanity imaginable! Attempting to mitigate the impact of evil with more evil is pointless, and particularly stupid. We are supposedly in that god's image? Well, I'll give you this, being one who generally believes that man has created gods according to his own image, it's disturbing to think there was a man who was bad enough to create your god! Perhaps such an incredible multifecta of evil really does require something supernatural. But I know you won't judge the actions of your god, because he told you not to.
Mr. Hanky Wrote:Quote:Given the multiple personality variances according to the different people who wrote for this god (who is so mighty he doesn't even have his own hand to write with), plus the fact that he still won't even show anyone his face, there's less a chance that the bible describes any real god as there is that the ramblings of anybody's sock puppets describe the real god.
God is Spirit, He's not a physical being as we are, again if you had read the Bible you would know this. What requirement is there that God has to reveal himself to our eyes, many people believe in dark matter yet it has never been seen. By what you say dark matter must be rejected because it hasn't revealed itself to us.
You know there happens to be stronger evidence for the existence of dark matter than there is for the existence of any metaphysical god? This will always be so for any scientific idea, including geocentrism and the Flat Earth conspiracy theory. It's like that because they are logically falsifiable ideas, while your assertions aren't in any way. That's why they don't belong here!
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