Still struggling.

[MTL]

He says that he did research and found the prophecies to be the biggest point of evidence. I asked if mom wouldn't have pushed him about it would he still be an atheist and he said most likely not.

Oh for pity's sake.

If there is one piece of asinine religious  logic that I would love to flush down the toilet more than any other,
it is that defense of "prophesies coming to pass".

Let me present an outlandish idea to you:

Let's say for a moment that there really IS a spiritual realm,
and not only is there a God,
but there are also other spiritual beings:  Demons, Angels, and human ghosts.

If such a realm existed,
I think it is entirely possible that various spirits would have varying personalities and levels of willpower and ambition,
just like people do in the human realm.

Some may be very determined, powerful, ambitious and belligerent....like Donald Trump
some may be dissolute and unfocused....like a homeless drunk on the corner.

Again, allowing for the theory of Deism:

That God may in fact exist,
but that He has no definite, discernable agenda that we can be sure of,
(at least where mankind is concerned),

then, if He allows various good and bad people to go through their lives as they choose,
then why wouldn't He likewise allow demons and angels to do so?

Did it ever occur to you that "prophesy" may be the work of ambitious demons
that are only too willing to deceive mankind into believing that they (the demons) are God,
or the Son of God?

I mean, consider all the wars carried out by entirely devout religions,
who each consider the other to be heretics.

Why would a loving God allow devout Muslims and devout Christians or devout Jews to war
...and in His Name?

Why wouldn't He step in and clarify which people had it right,
and which people were simply well-meaning, but on the wrong track???

But a demon masquerading as God might delight in causing that much devastation, though!!

And the Deist version of God...one with no agenda,
would not step in to stop the demons from misleading mankind,

(...and not necessarily because He "doesn't care", per se...
...but because that's simply not how He works;
He is, perhaps, an inscrutable, unfathomable creative force who simply does not interfere,
and whose agenda we should not presume to second-guess).

Now, I am personally inclined to think there is probably no God
(and very likely no demons or angels, even if there IS a God out there)

but my point is to get you thinking about how flimsy the idea
of relying upon PROPHESY AS PROOF, really is.

also consider this:

A real God would have NO USE FOR PROPHETS.

A real God could simply snap His fingers
and cause all of Humanity to understand His Will, spontaneously.

It is in the interest of RELIGION  (which does NOT represent God)
to CONVINCE you that Prophets are the Chosen of God, don't forget.

[robvalue]

Prophecies. I don't believe that anyone is actually tipped into belief by them. It's just another way of people rationalising their already held belief to themself.

If anyone truly was convinced by prophecies, all I can say is that their critical thinking skills are extremely lacking, and/or they haven't investigated these prophecies for themselves. Many of them are one part of a story "predicting" what will happen later in the same story, by the same author. How could the author possibly have known what they were going to write!? Yeah.

Also, a lot of the material in the bible was written well after the events it describes, as a way of trying to make history sound more palatable to them. "We went and killed them all because we wanted their stuff" doesn't sound so good, does it? When you write the "predictions" after the events themselves have already happened... well, it's pathetic. And it's equally pathetic anyone could be impressed by it. It's like writing down last week's lottery numbers as a "prediction" of what happened, after they've been shown.

If you do start having any serious doubts regarding prophecy Gdog, let us know and we can help you analyse it and work through it. We can look at any particular examples, or bring up our own.

[robvalue]

Oh and I forgot to say, thank you for your concern Gdog I'm very sorry for what you're going through also, I wish I could do more to help.

[KevinM1]

Prophecies.  Heh.

It's really easy to fulfill prophecies when the people writing these stories are doing it at least 30 years after the events supposedly happened.

Here's the thing: the Bible is mostly fiction.  There could have been a dude named Jesus running around in the Middle East rabble rousing and whatnot.  And it's definitely likely that if such a guy existed that he was killed via crucifixion as a way for Rome to dissuade others from following his example.  Everything else?  Pretty clearly written to make this person sound fucking amazing.  Why?  Because religion and politics were one and the same back then, and there was a need for those who wanted to resist Rome to create something for others to rally around.  It's abundantly clear that the NT is written from the POV of a persecuted people (the OT is basically "Our clan is better than yours, so here's a bunch of rules to follow and a genealogy and 'rah rah, we're the chosen ones' stories to keep this clan strong").  

Seriously, compare the story of Jesus with a bunch of other messiahs that the world knew about before then.  The similarities are striking.

But, the biggest thing is to not get conned by emotional appeals.  Your brother said he 'researched' it.  Well, there's actual research, which means looking at academic sources and thinking critically, and then there's 'research' which usually means finding sources to confirm your bias so you feel good/eliminate doubt.  I'm willing to bet $100 that your brother did the second version.  That he had a crisis of faith, declared himself atheist because it was a way for him to exhibit typical, rebellious teenage tendencies, felt bad/guilty, then rushed to biased sources (perhaps provided by your mother or church) to reassure himself.  That's not research.

And now, your brother is trying to leverage his "I'm the older brother" cachet in order to bring you back into the fold.  It's typical theist BS.  They have no rational argument.  The prophecies stuff has been debunked many times before.  They're just trying to increase the pressure on you by doubling down on the guilt, fear, doubt, and notion of some kind of authority on you.

I mean, here's a very quick link that took 2 seconds of Googling to find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_...fulfilment  As you can see, biblical prophecy doesn't really mean what laypeople think it does.  And by following the cited sources, you should be able to figure more out on your own.  And I'm 99% sure this is more legit research than your brother attempted.

[robvalue]

Haha yes, with Jesus it's painfully obvious. The gospel authors read the OT and just wrote a character that they felt fulfilled the prophecies. It's no accomplishment at all, and if there is a real person underneath the myth he will bear almost no resemblance to his fictional counterpart.

[MTL]

I've been through (and am still going through) mental illness, and this kind of dismissal is about the most useless and infuriating thing anyone can do.

Absofuckinglutely.

[Socratic Meth Head]

Well, she never took me to my appointment today. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and saying she forgot.

[robvalue]

Oh no That really sucks. Are you able to rebook soon?

That is extremely generous of you, after the way she's been acting.

[Socratic Meth Head]

Oh no That really sucks. Are you able to rebook soon?

That is extremely generous of you, after the way she's been acting.

I don't know, she is asleep. I will ask her in the morning.

[Fake Messiah]

Yeah if it was just question of logic almost all people would leave the religion, but the problem is that people around you, like you said, still believe in this nonsense and they target you, isolate you.

But forget for a moment that religion is a nonsense, don't those preachers make you miserable? When you go to the mass and listen to those words don't they evoke anger, aggression, disapproval, sarcasm and cynicism? They don't inspire love, compassion or tolerance. It is designed to elicit fear. The logic is non-existent. The priest is there to be perpetually angry week after week. Those sermons are designed to speak directly to the primitive limbic system in the brain where it tends to evoke responses of fear, anger, anxiety or other negative emotions.
As a result, people feel that they belong to a group under attack. If successful, the minister will accomplish two things: First, the listeners will feel threatened; and second, they will bond more closely to one another to feel safer and more protected. They feel miserable whole week until that short relief when they hear those angry words on the mass, or during the week if they listen to religious radios or TV where they can hear that message how they are in danger and better watch out.

Try this experiment: Watch any of the popular televangelists with the sound turned off. Pay particular attention to any close up-shots. Examine the preachers’ smile, their jaw tension, neck or forehead veins; watch their hand gestures – how many aggressive, forward-pushing, knife or hatchet-type gestures do you see? Now ask: If you saw this person in a coffee shop talking like this, how would you classify his or her behavior and emotions?