Could atheist westerners, please explain?

[Joods]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't there currently somewhere along the line of 18 wars currently going on all over the world?

And yet Atlas wants whom exactly to stay up late at night worrying about the ME?

Sorry, I'm not a higher up in any military or government office. I'm not even PART of a military or government office. So why would it be my concern to care about any of that? Honestly, I didn't start shit over there or anywhere else that's currently undergoing a conflict. Leave me out of ALL of it.

[robvalue]

If I could snap my fingers and stop people bashing each other to death over idiotic stuff, I would. Sadly, I'm not the one with the power to do that.

[WinterHold]

You think that without the west's uncondontional support, isreal would be or would have been annihilated in a single day, and also that "secularism" should have done less.  Death to isreal, insha allah.  

So long as the pro-isreal faction has people like yourself to point to, to paint the entirety of the opposition with....the situation will persists as-is.  So long as your clique insists on rambling like idiots, as above, you will not find a seat at the table if or when the situation does change.

Keep putting words which I didn't say in my mouth, and keep living in that delusion; your loss not mine.
Anyhow in response to the important parts, which are in bold:

The problem of this world, was people like you, who think that self defense is a monopoly; a right, that only they posses and have the right to practice. So no wonder, that you supported the nuclear attacks against Japan (in a previous discussion we had), and considered that a "correct righteous move", while blame me and my kin, for defending ourselves against an invading force, that came to kill and occupy, ironically, just like the founders of your great nation.

RobbyPants

The forth group also exist in the Middle East; Sunni Jihadists carry this line of thinking, so as the Shia Twelvers.
It's a scary branch, on the Christian, Jewish & Islamic side: some are willing to spill so much blood to bring the prophicies true. Scary.

robvalue

Secularism is the prevention of religious thought to reach the ruling chamber; even if a majority supported it. So technically, it carries a type of tyranny in its core.

The idea of secularism itself, is denying me my right to rule with religion, even if the majority was by my side. That's why -for the existence of Israel-, I blame each and every secular person -if they accepted it as a legitimate state-; and accuse them of hypocrisy and bigotry if they didn't oppose Israel.

That was my whole point.

Nymphadora

Throughout history, people repeated what you said; left the bully evil ones who lead, lead them to wars,conflict and battles, until grudges grew and hate covered our globe.

In one argument that can be directed towards this comment, a person who remains silent during a crime, is carrying a burden, too. Your silence, along with the silence of Millions, is just giving the mad leaders more space to do their evil deeds.

If we as a specie, cared for each others and took each others problems seriously, maybe the world would've became a better place.

[ReptilianPeon]

Isn't Allah just "testing" the people of Palestine? Might this all be part of Allah's grand and perfect plan for them? They don't deserve to suffer but maybe Allah is doing what's best?

I mean, Allan Kurdi's father managed to spin the death of his son in a positive way, stating: "Allah took my son to highlight the plight of the refugees". Then fifteen seconds after he did that, people, sadly, went back to not caring. I posted about Palestine being the fault of Allah here.

Children even thank Allah for making them unable to see (blind). So there must be a way to put a positive spin on Palestine. But we know being unable to see is never a gift from Allah. Making an innocent child blind and then allowing they child to be brainwashed into think Allah gifted him with blindness.

You know, Quran 22:39 springs to mind, now that I remember that topic:

"To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-"

So the Quran says that if Allah is unwilling or unable to protect you then you should fight. Is this verse an admission that Allah is a weak deity?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Isn't Allah just "testing" the people of Palestine? Might this all be part of Allah's grand and perfect plan for them? They don't deserve to suffer but maybe Allah is doing what's best?

I mean, Allan Kurdi's father managed to spin the death of his son in a positive way, stating: "Allah took my son to highlight the plight of the refugees". Then fifteen seconds after he did that, people, sadly, went back  to not caring. I posted about Palestine being the fault of Allah here.

People even thank Allah for making them unable to see (blind). So there must be a way to put a positive spin on Palestine. Like being unable to see us ever a gift from Allah.

You know, Quran 22:39 springs to mind, now that I remember that topic:

"To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-"

So the Quran says that if Allah is unwilling or unable to protect you then you should fight. Is this verse an admission that Allah is a weak deity?

Allah gets pissed when people ask too many questions about his religion.

[WinterHold]

Isn't Allah just "testing" the people of Palestine? Might this all be part of Allah's grand and perfect plan for them? They don't deserve to suffer but maybe Allah is doing what's best?

I mean, Allan Kurdi's father managed to spin the death of his son in a positive way, stating: "Allah took my son to highlight the plight of the refugees". Then fifteen seconds after he did that, people, sadly, went back  to not caring. I posted about Palestine being the fault of Allah here.

Children even thank Allah for making them unable to see (blind). So there must be a way to put a positive spin on Palestine. But we know being unable to see is never a gift from Allah. Making an innocent child blind and then allowing they child to be brainwashed into think Allah gifted him with blindness.

You know, Quran 22:39 springs to mind, now that I remember that topic:

"To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-"

So the Quran says that if Allah is unwilling or unable to protect you then you should fight. Is this verse an admission that Allah is a weak deity?

I would keep religious discussion to the religious section, I don't know how God is engulfed in the discussion; even though it's pretty clear that the only thing religion contributed to was the choice of land. Zionism -believe it or not; MNMP- is more oriented about getting rid of Jewish ghettos in Europe, and throw the Jewish poor population into a desert, and what way is better than a false religious concept to move things up?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Ha...nd_Zionism

Scroll down to Neturei Karta,

And, no, Israel is not "Allah's fault"; it's the fault of secularism, Britain & a hypocrite UN, Allah just allowed this to happen since -Yes- life is a test. Replacing Islam with nationalism, when taken into considration, can ease up the understanding why Arabs were led to this dark tunnel.

[ReptilianPeon]

There are different approaches to secularism; the Soviets condemned Zionism for example and they were initially reluctant to allow Soviet Jews to travel to Israel. The problem is Christian eschatology; and to be clear many of these Christians are selfish (i.e. majority of U.S. Republicans) and don't actually care about even Israel as it happens, let alone Palestine. They just want to see Jesus come back because they allowed the fulfilling of Biblical prophecy and some even believe that Jesus will kill all of the remaining Jews when he comes back (because they are not Christian). And they will stop at nothing to make sure the world plays out as their Bible says. If enough people are working towards fulfilling prophecy (and they have the incentive on then being able to say: The Bible was right about this) then chances are it will happen.

That's why the Gulf Cooperation Council are competing to build the tallest buildings. There is a Hadith which says the Arabs will compete to build tall structures so they have the incentive to build tall structures. They want to be able to say: "Muhammad was right all along".

Many people (secularists) support Palestine. Obviously you don't want to live under Hadith inspired Sharia. You can forget about Nancy Ajram if the Salafi/Twelvers/Wahaabis come to power.

So what's your alternative to secularism? I happen to think that theocracy would be worse for Palestine, especially Christian  theocracy, as that it was led to the Crusades (European royalty, even in the U.K. today, is often seen as getting their power from god). Jews have co-existed just fine in Arabia before even the time of Muhammad; it's only recently that it's become a problem. And it's because of the selfish Christians and Salafis/Wahaabis/Twelvers playing people against each other for personal gain that it's become a problem.

[Ben Davis]

Secularism is the prevention of religious thought to reach the ruling chamber; even if a majority supported it. So technically, it carries a type of tyranny in its core.

Sorry, wtf?! Using your terms, Secularism is the prevention of religious mandate to be passed in to legislation. It makes absolutely no statement on thought control; the opposite of what Islam does. As a result, all people of all religions or none are able to benefit from the rule of government and are prevented from stopping others from doing so. So actually it opposes tyranny in its core.

The idea of secularism itself, is denying me my right to rule with religion, even if the majority was by my side.

That's the thing, you have no such right because not everyone has the same religious belief as you. Governments' main concern is administrative governance of a nation not ideological control. Your misunderstanding, actually perversion would be a better term, of the purpose of government is your issue.

That's why -for the existence of Israel-, I blame each and every secular person -if they accepted it as a legitimate state-; and accuse them of hypocrisy and bigotry if they didn't oppose Israel.

And that's why your blaming of secularists is not only unfounded but profoundly bigotted and unethical in both its premises and consequences. Why don't you try blaming the people actually responsible and stop using Israel as a premise to attack people of a differing ideology to you? All you're doing is being an arse.

[robvalue]

Whoah, whoah...

Atlas wants to rule with his religion? Am I reading this correctly?

Well, if your God was real, I'm sure that would be extremely easy. Since he's not, tough luck. Secularism is the only sensible way forward for civilization, and if you're against it you're part of the problem you're complaining about.

You see, you might not have noticed, but there's more than one religion. And when two religions with your mindset both want to rule a country, and there's no secular foundation, this is when religious wars happen. Whereas in civilised, secular countries, people of all faiths can coexist without feeling the need to control each other with their personal beliefs.

You think taking away your "right" to dominate others with your religion is persecution? Yeah, no.

[robvalue]

Wow. Before reading that, I was generous enough to side Atlas with the "reasonable Muslims". Now I feel his mental state is closer to ISIS.

Religion has rotted his humanity.